add Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) Pope Francis told the crowd that when he was Buenos Aires archbishop, at first he didn't "share" the way the exuberant charismatic Catholics prayed there. `'I thought you were more like a samba school," the pope said, drawing laughter. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_VATICAN_POPE_FAMILIES?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-06-01-13-42-39 Do you agree or disagree? Edited June 9, 2014 by add
MIKolbe Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Pope Francis told the crowd that when he was Buenos Aires archbishop, at first he didn't "share" the way the exuberant charismatic Catholics prayed there. `'I thought you were more like a samba school," the pope said, drawing laughter. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_VATICAN_POPE_FAMILIES?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-06-01-13-42-39 Do you agree or disagree? I agree the Pope said that.
Perigrina Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Many years ago, when I was in my late teens and an Evangelical Fundamentalist Protestant, a friend told me about a Catholic charismatic prayer meeting she attended and invited me to join her. I went out of curiosity. About the only thing I remember about it was that I was sitting next to a good looking young man. (I dare say that I remember this because I ended up marrying him.) I must have liked it somewhat (or maybe it was the young man) because I kept going back. In my Protestant days, I went to the sort of church where they said that Catholics were not really Christians and gave out Chick tracts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_tract . The people I met among the Catholic charismatics led me to question what I had been taught about Catholics. I could see that they were in love with Jesus and really excited about him. It was never a style of worship that strongly appealed to me nor was it a good match for my personality, but it was an important step to my becoming Catholic. Between that and the husband finding thing, I have really good associations with Catholic charismatics.
Perigrina Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Sometimes I see people making fun of charismatics for the way they pray. The Pope's samba comment was good-natured, but often it is done in a mean way. I think that this sort of mockery is disrespectful and inappropriate. Like any movement, charismatics have people who abuse it or take wrong views. and those are legitimate grounds for criticism, but there is no reason to be mean.
cmaD2006 Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I agree the Pope said that. Exactly ... I agree that the Pope said that. Look -- we've hit this topic over and over on Phatmass. There are people on the board (myself included) who have been involved with the Charismatic Renewal. There are people on the board who don't agree with the movement (for lack of a better term -- the Charismatic Renewal is a both/and, i.e. a movement and a bit more than that). There are excesses in every movement ... I'm sure you will find people who are part of the Legion of Mary (for example) who take it to an extreme. It doesn't necesarily mean that there is a problem with the Legion of Mary. My question is ... what does another "what do you think about the Charismatic Renewal" thread serve to do? Other than maybe make it that much more uncomfortable for those who are part of the renewal to stay on the phorum? Food for thought.
Perigrina Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Something is wrong if people involved in the charismatic movement are not comfortable with the way the topic is discussed on this phorum. This movement is approved by the Church. Catholics have a right to be involved in this.
cmaD2006 Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Peregrina -- this has been discussed debated on the phorum, in a heated manner (many, many times). That's my main point.
Perigrina Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I guess you feel worn out by it and just want to avoid the topic. But it is not right for any of us to put our own opinions over the Church. The Charismatic Renewal is allowed. That is not up for debate.
PhuturePriest Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Mother Angelica herself was once a part of the Charismatic Renewal. There's nothing wrong with it, and it's not seem evil thing Catholics should be wary of. However, Mother Angelica left after a few years because the leaders were more focused on feelings and emotions than theology and the Church. That is a pitfall that is easy to fall into in the Charismatic Renewal, and that should be more widely discussed by Church leaders. However, I have no issue with the Renewal in itself so long as the emotions and feelings are more closely moderated.
Nihil Obstat Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I have little real issue with it as long as 'charismatic gifts' are understood and respected in continuity with Catholic Tradition. In some cases it seems to veer towards protestantism, perhaps due to over-enthusiasm or lack of proper discernment.
cmaD2006 Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I guess you feel worn out by it and just want to avoid the topic. But it is not right for any of us to put our own opinions over the Church. The Charismatic Renewal is allowed. That is not up for debate. Agreed :).
cmaD2006 Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I have little real issue with it as long as 'charismatic gifts' are understood and respected in continuity with Catholic Tradition. In some cases it seems to veer towards protestantism, perhaps due to over-enthusiasm or lack of proper discernment. Actually I think it is more because of a lack of formation.
Nihil Obstat Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Actually I think it is more because of a lack of formation. Probably. I would consider that falling under improper discernment. Whether it is because they cannot, do not know how, or are not willing, I do not know, but I have no doubt that formation is part of the equation.
Perigrina Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Actually I think it is more because of a lack of formation. I remember there was something called a "Life in the Spirit Seminar" for teaching people involved in the movement. Would you say it has the purpose of formation?
cmaD2006 Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 No ... Life in the Spirit seminar is not a "formation". It is more of a Kerygmatic retreat ... i.e. a "1st announcement", conversion experience. The renewal has opportunities for formation, sometimes at the diocesan level, but at least at the Regional. And there are even opportunities for formation at the National and International level.
add Posted June 9, 2014 Author Posted June 9, 2014 "Back at the end of the 1970s and the beginning of the 1980s, I had no time for" charismatics, the pope told reporters on the plane returning from Rio July 28. "Once, speaking about them, I said: 'These people confuse a liturgical celebration with samba lessons!'" "Now I regret it," he said. "Now I think that this movement does much good for the church, overall." "I don't think that the charismatic renewal movement merely prevents people from passing over to Pentecostal denominations," Pope Francis said. "No! It is also a service to the church herself! It renews us." "The movements are necessary, the movements are a grace of the Spirit," the pope added, speaking of ecclesial movements in general. "Everyone seeks his own movement, according to his own charism, where the Holy Spirit draws him or her."
Perigrina Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I'm tired, what are you getting at ADD? Pope Francis is reusing the same jokes.
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