Marriage...

[the lumberjack]

[quote]priests are called to deny Baptism to parents who will not raise the child Catholic, or deny marriage to people who refuse to consider children.[/quote]

cmom's post in another topic made me think of something going on in my family... not that I'm attacking you, cmom...ya know I gots love for ya babe!

my brother and I were both raised "protestant".... duh.

my brother is in love with a wonderful girl... I love her with all my heart.

BUT she is a catholic...not that I have an objection to this...but she is one of those "because" catholics...if anyone knows what I'm talking about.

now, they're getting married next month, and like I said, I have NO objection to her being catholic...I love the girl. but the thing is, is she now excommunicated because of her marrying a prot?

or what is the Catholic Church stance on this?

my brother may not be walking in the graces of God right now, but he does know where he should be...I talk to him on the daily about that...and she's not exactly a practicing Catholic either...COE, from what I remember. (Christmas Or Easter...)

comments? questions? concerns?

love y'all.

peace.

dumbstruck the clutz

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

I believe that she must get a dispensation from her bishop to marry a non-Catholic or to be married in a non-Catholic ceremony (CCC 1635). I don't believe that this is very hard to get, so she should get this and avoid any possible excommunication.

The reason the Church denies Baptism for children whose parents won't raise them Catholic or marriage to couples who won't have children is to prevent sacrilege. It is one thing not to understand all the aspects of a sacrament. I will never fully understand what went on when I was baptized even though I was aware of it (at age 11), but I knew that it meant my sins were forgiven and that I was to lead a Christian life afterwards. As far as marriage is concerned, the fundamental aspect is "ordered toward the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring" (CCC 1601). To flat out deny the purpose or effects of the sacrament and to then receive it is considered sacrilege (CCC 2120).

I hope this answers some of your questions. I need sleep now.

God Bless,
Jay

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

Whoops, I read the quote you had as part of what you were talking about. Pay no attention to the second paragraph. Nothing to see here.

[qfnol31]

My grandfather got married outside the Church, and it was okay because there was a Catholic priest there to make it a valid Sacrament. I don't think that the Church will say she's excommunicated for marrying a Protestant, and I can't see why they ever would unless they didn't get married in light of the Church. I know that to have an official Sacramental marriage in the eyes of the Church the priest must be there and they must get dispensation from the Bishop. And of course, they must agree to raise the kids Catholic.

Now, I don't think all of this pertains if the marriage takes place inside the Church, no matter what religion she is.

[Ash Wednesday]

I was gonna say something regarding an incident in my family, but I'm a little paranoid about privacy so I changed my mind.

What I will petition you for is prayers for my family.

Thanks.

Edited June 9, 2004 by Ash Wednesday

[Aloysius]

a marriage is sacramental so long as it is between two baptized Christians.

it is LICIT if it is recognized by the Church. it is ILLICIT if they do not get married in the eyes of the Church, but the two have sacramentally become one flesh.

PAX

[the lumberjack]

well, ladies and gents, being that my brother is not Catholic, the kids probly won't be raised fully Catholic...and you all probly know that their Protestant uncle (yours faithfully) will have a little to say in that.

and though I can see what you all are saying...

I have a question for you Al... you said [quote]a marriage is sacramental so long as it is between two baptized Christians.

it is LICIT if it is recognized by the Church. it is ILLICIT if they do not get married in the eyes of the Church, but the two have sacramentally become one flesh.[/quote]

but like I said, she is a nonpracticing "because" Catholic and my brother is not walking with the Lord right now...and I don't think either of them has ever been baptized, unless you count her infant baptism.

so where would that leave us?

[Aloysius]

I count her infant baptism so long as it was done IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. It's a spiritual reality, not some simple human choice to want to be Christian.

he hasn't been baptized? that's a problem

[the lumberjack]

it was, I'm sure of it...

but the thing is not JUST that he hasn't been baptized...

its that NEITHER of them is practicing what they believe...and that is where the problem is...yet they will be married by a priest (I THINK he's nondenom) and outside, as to avoid the whole prot/cath scuffle...

my mom would not approve of my brother being married in a catholic church as her mother would not approve of her being married in a protestant church...so, they're getting married outside.

God bless.

[Aloysius]

i donno... all that can be done is pray for them. if one day they become practicing by the grace of God, they will look into either licitizing their marriage or in the more extreme if he was not baptized they'd have to sacramentalize their marriage.

at least from what I know.

PAX

[voiciblanche]

Yeah, Al's right about the licit and illicit parts - one thing to note is that if she and your brother get married outside of the Catholic Church, say, in a Baptist or some other type of wedding, then she can't receive Holy Communion until she's confessed it and had a priest make it a licit marriage. I don't know exactly how they do that, but I know that's what they do.

Edited June 9, 2004 by voiciblanche

[qfnol31]

I know it doesn't take very much. I think the paperwork is what takes longest. I just wish people would do it more often. I have two aunts who married outside the Church.

[jasJis]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Jun 9 2004, 09:57 AM'] it was, I'm sure of it...

but the thing is not JUST that he hasn't been baptized...

its that NEITHER of them is practicing what they believe...and that is where the problem is...yet they will be married by a priest (I THINK he's nondenom) and outside, as to avoid the whole prot/cath scuffle...

my mom would not approve of my brother being married in a catholic church as her mother would not approve of her being married in a protestant church...so, they're getting married outside.

God bless. [/quote]
They are practicing more Christianity then you give them credit for. The fact they are getting a Christian wedding out of respect for the parents wishes is worth something. Some graces in sacraments come regardless of the state of our faith or understanding. It's like getting a present and only partially unwrapping it. There's always more to get out of it if we use it more.

[dUSt]

Your soon to be sister-in-law should at least talk to a priest. If she calls herself Catholic, that's the least she can do.

Better yet, have her sign up here at phatmass so we can talk to her.

[Budge]

I wouldnt worry about it unless she is concerned about it.

When I was back in Catholic Church for very short time they told me they didnt see my marriage was valid. I married a Lutheran in a Unitarian-Universalist church. I think I was supposed to get some paper signed or something, dispensation. Dont remember. My husband refused and I let it drop.

Now its a moot point since I left.

Some of the marriage rules seem to get pretty complicated.

My husband summed it up saying "We dont do retakes!"

[CreepyCrawler]

my mom and stepdad had a non-catholic wedding, i believe it was more along the lines of a civil service or something, i don't know. but my mom hadn't been able to receive communion for years until she got 'remarried' to my stepdad in the church (he needed an annullment of his first marriage, which took a long time) and she was so sad about it (not getting communion). she wasn't a very faithful catholic when she married my stepdad but then she gradually became one, so she eventually regretted it. if i were your future sister in law, i'd really think hard about it. who knows? what if she becomes a better catholic and wants more than christmas or easter? it will break her heart not to be able to receive the sacraments.