Monastic Sisters Of Bethlehem

[Gabriela]

With regard to our recent discussions here - it's really not about where you choose to be.  I believe it's about discerning where God is calling you to be to adore Him and to serve. 

 

This is a good point, John. I only harp on the difference between the MFB and the Carthusians because, when I was discerning, it was very difficult to find out about the real daily life of both of them. (I had plenty of surprises with the Carthusians, too!) So I just want women to know that, if they've discerned that God has called them to very strict solitude, then the MFB may not be the way to go.

 

That being said, I think a lot of people discern that God is calling them to solitude, and go visit the Carthusians, and then realize, "Oh my gosh, I don't think I'm called to THAT much solitude!" Very probably, the solitude of the MFB would be sufficient for most people. It's just important to realize that how much solitude one will have with the MFB will depend on the community's needs, where you're at in your formation process, etc. You're likely to get shuffled around in the work assignments, and in some of those, you'll have much less solitude than in others. Some of their sisters actually lead very busy lives.

 

Again, I think it needs to be said especially because it's pretty well impossible to find out how the MFB sisters really live until one has been discerning with them for quite a long time, and even then, one won't be able to have a comparable experience with them as one does with other orders, because they don't do "live-ins". (To most women, the School of Life is going to be totally equivalent to simply entering entering the order. I mean, really, who's going to take a year off to live with a community unless she's already pretty sure she's called there? It's a huge commitment.) To me, entering without a live-in was simply too much, and I couldn't understand why I couldn't have a live-in. I mean, even the Carthusians have live-ins! But the MFB sisters didn't seem to even be aware of the kind of arrangement I was talking about. There was a lot of miscommunication there.

 

So I'd say to anyone who wants to discern with the MFB: Go for a retreat at Livingston Manor, and be prepared for a whole lot of ambiguity. Discern well, because I think it will take a good deal of conviction about the call and total trust in God in general to enter the MFB with peace of mind. And if you feel that your call to the MFB is based on a call to solitude in particular (as opposed to the liturgy or the particular spirituality of the MFB), then I'd say visit the Carthusians, too. I recommend the charterhouse in Reillane, France. They are really lovely sisters, with four in formation. I'd say theirs is one of the healthiest communities I have ever visited.

[Hemma]

Yes, it means "house of the camel" which is "gamal" in Hebrew, but I think "jamal" in Arabic.

 

There was an Israeli documentary film about them several years ago.  Looks like a lovely community.
 

 

Does anyone know whether the  mentioned documentary film is available on the internet somewhere?

[genesisweavers]

If you go to YouTube and request Monastic Sisters of Bethlehem you will find a number of videos.  I don't know if the particular video that you're looking for it there however.

 

Blessings

john

[Hemma]

Unless Antigonos meant this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pub5hHIokx8 (which I don't suppose) OR unless it appears in hebrew letters which I cannot read, it's not among them (as far as I can see).

[Antigonos]

Unless Antigonos meant this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pub5hHIokx8 (which I don't suppose) OR unless it appears in hebrew letters which I cannot read, it's not among them (as far as I can see).

 

No, that's not it.  This was a full documentary, I think about an hour long, and it's called "A Love Beyond Words".

This is the link I found, but it's really only a description.  I didn't find it on YouTube but  here

  is a link to Vimeo -- alas the sound track is in Hebrew, but visually it is interesting.  The sisters speak in French, IIRC, so perhaps some of you will understand bits.

 

Edited December 30, 2014 by Antigonos

[Graciela]

Antigonos-

 

Thank you so much for sharing that link to the Vimeo documentary.  I watched and savored every minute of it, without understanding any of the narration or speaking, except a few bits of the French. 

A gorgeous film, making their life look so very appealing.

 

Does anyone know whether the Monastic sisters of Bethlehem have converse or donate sisters as the Carthusians do?

 

Grace and peace to all.

Graciela

[Sponsa-Christi]

I'll actually be making a silent retreat in Livingston Manor fairly soon (winter weather permitting, that is!) I've seen the monastery before, but this will be my first retreat with them. Does anyone have any suggestions or advice about how to make the most of my time there? Thanks!

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

They must now have heat in the hermitages! They didn't used to have them available during the winter months. BRING a lot of warm clothing. Often there is a 20 degree difference from the village to the monastery!

Good boots are a must as well.

 

just enjoy it!

[Hemma]

Thank you Antigonos too for that wonderful documentary! Right now I could watch only a few minutes but I will savor the rest of it later as Graciela said!

[genesisweavers]

Peace to you Graciela + No the Monastic Sisters of Bethlehem do not have lay Sisters or Donates.  All are the same.  The individual discerns her Bethlehem vocation with her 'spiritual guide' aka the Prioress.  If the Sister discerns that she is called to be a 'Sister in Solitude' then that will be her direction.  These Sisters are the same as the Carthusian 'choir monks/nuns' and remain in the cell except for liturgy and community functions.  The rest of the community are assigned jobs that fit their needs and the needs of the community.  All, however, work in solitude.  Even if it's kitchen work the Sister will find a place where she can be in solitude to do her work - e.g. a kitchenette.  A consistent silence is always observed - it isn't unusual to see Sisters communicating via notes instead of speaking. 

 

Sponsa-Christi + I extend to you an advance welcome + Yes of course there is heat in the hermitages.  And the cook (me!) will provide you with hot soup and whatever you need.  Even if you forget to bring stuff we have 'everything under the sun' - except (at times) the sun.  We wait for you and we pray for you.  May your time with us be blessed.

 

your brother

john

[beatitude]

Thanks for the Vimeo link, Antigonos - I have an ulpan exam approaching and only this morning I was looking for material to practise with that's a bit more interesting to me than our teacher's recommended documentary about chemical pesticides.  :hehe2:

[beatitude]

...on second thoughts, as the documentary name suggests, there are very few words in it! It's a beautiful portrayal but for language study I suppose I'll have to stay with the pesticides. :P

[Antigonos]

...on second thoughts, as the documentary name suggests, there are very few words in it! It's a beautiful portrayal but for language study I suppose I'll have to stay with the pesticides. :P

 

A good deal of the voiceover narration in Hebrew are quotations, from Song of Songs and other very Scriptural sources, so you would likely find the Hebrew difficult.  But, as you say, the main impact is visual.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Antigonos

[Gabriela]

Antigonos-

 

Thank you so much for sharing that link to the Vimeo documentary.  I watched and savored every minute of it, without understanding any of the narration or speaking, except a few bits of the French. 

A gorgeous film, making their life look so very appealing.

 

Does anyone know whether the Monastic sisters of Bethlehem have converse or donate sisters as the Carthusians do?

 

Grace and peace to all.

Graciela

 

John has already answered this, but I would add: In a sense, yes, but officially, no. Converse sisters are simply sisters who work outside of cell, and lots of MFB sisters do that. In my experience with them, they didn't actually guarantee solitude in that work, nor silence (though it was certainly a lot more silent than a secular workplace, to be sure!). Donate sisters they do not have, as one cannot simply continue in the School of Life until one feels ready to move on or decides to leave. The School of Life is really more like postulancy. There's no way to "try out" the MFB like there is the Carthusians.

 

My understanding from speaking to my "Angel" at the Evangelical Month was that a sister who feels called to more solitude will be permitted to work in cell—when she's further along in the life, but not before. It was my impression that only some sisters in final vows had the kind of solitude that all Carthusians have. And that was one difference between the MFB and the Carthusians that really struck me: The Carthusians talked constantly about a call to solitude, and they jealously guard the vocation to solitude even for aspirants, because they revere that call. For the MFB, solitude didn't seem to be an inherent part of the call to their order. It was certainly a part of their life, but it wasn't a guarantee for anyone. The needs of the community could override solitude, and seemed to do so quite a lot (though less at Livingston Manor, from what I saw). That's why I say the MFB seemed more Benedictine to me.

 

I'll actually be making a silent retreat in Livingston Manor fairly soon (winter weather permitting, that is!) I've seen the monastery before, but this will be my first retreat with them. Does anyone have any suggestions or advice about how to make the most of my time there? Thanks!

 

Take:

 

1. A flashlight AND a book light (<< CRITICAL!!!)

2. Walking shoes/boots

3. An alarm clock

4. A wrist watch

5. Things to keep you busy (like books or crafts)

6. If you're a picky eater: snacks

 

They must now have heat in the hermitages! They didn't used to have them available during the winter months. BRING a lot of warm clothing. Often there is a 20 degree difference from the village to the monastery!

Good boots are a must as well.

 

just enjoy it!

 

Yes, there is now electric heat in the guest hermitages. Some of the sisters still use wood stoves, but their newer cabins all have electric heat, too. And the chapel has a heated floor—though not in the balcony, where guests pray. It can be pretty cold up there!

[vee]

No, that's not it.  This was a full documentary, I think about an hour long, and it's called "A Love Beyond Words".

This is the link I found, but it's really only a description.  I didn't find it on YouTube but  here

  is a link to Vimeo -- alas the sound track is in Hebrew, but visually it is interesting.  The sisters speak in French, IIRC, so perhaps some of you will understand bits.

 

Thanks for sharing that!  I watched the whole thing and thought it was fantastic.

[brandelynmarie]

This has been such an honest, interesting conversation about the sisters at Livingston Manor... I feel I understand their vocation more now than ever before...

[mariepaix]

Following the investigation of the Monastic Sisters of Bethlehem by the Vatican, Sr. Emmanuel, the Prioress general, has issued a statement where they ask forgiveness to the ex sisters for the deep wounds and trauma Bethlehem has inflicted upon them. https://english.bethleem.org/annonces/20210104_press_release.php

Because of the damage they have caused to many sisters who have left the order because of their dysfunctionality they have set up a listening cell where testimonies may be heard. cellule.ecoute.FMB@gmail.com  If you spent any time at Bethlehem please do not hesitate to contact the listening cell.  They will set up a zoom conference for those who live outside of France.

You may already find many testimonies of ex sisters, as well as the dossier that was brought to the Vatican by an ex brother of  Bethlehem at .https://www.lenversdudecor.org/Communaute-de-Bethleem-les-revelations-accablantes-d-un.html  It is in french but can be translated.  Since the dossier has come out many ex sisters and brothers who were afraid to speak before have found the courage to do so because of the dossier.  Many have suffered deep spiritual abuse causing depression and even suicide.  

Please beware of sending anyone to Sr. Amena at their monastery in Livingston Manor, NY until there are signs that they are on the road to spiritual health.  It is our fear that other young women who enter this order will suffer spiritual and psychological damage.

Finally because this order originated in France there is little news about the events that have transpired about the investigation and abuses here in America so people are unaware of the gravity of the situation.

[graciandelamadrededios]

I read about the testimony and it was disturbing.  

[mariepaix]

2 hours ago, graciandelamadrededios said:

I read about the testimony and it was disturbing.  

Indeed it is!  I am an ex sister and every day we are learning something new about Sr. Marie, Sr. Isabella and Bethelehm.  It is beyond shocking.  We doubt that they can actually be reformed. 

[graciandelamadrededios]

On 3/19/2021 at 11:51 PM, mariepaix said:

Indeed it is!  I am an ex sister and every day we are learning something new about Sr. Marie, Sr. Isabella and Bethelehm.  It is beyond shocking.  We doubt that they can actually be reformed. 

Ex-Sister of this Order?