krissylou Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 ^^ This. Take for example the Whitesville Passionists. The community had not received a new vocation in many years. Then a few years ago (the current) Sister Blogger joined the community. In a blog post she had mentioned her concern over being the only new vocation, but she faithfully followed God's call. Since then they have had a steady stream of vocations coming into the monastery. I think the currently have two postulants and an aspirant. She's been there longer than that, but yes you're absolutely right and I think about her story a fair amount. She was the first one to enter and stay in a generation. Is anyone going to come after her? For a while nobody else did. When it was time for her to make perpetual profession there was a new postulant (if my math is right) but plenty of postulants discern out. Is she going to stay? Who knows? Since then there have been a bunch of new entrants. That postulant DID stay and is now perpetually professed, and there are two in temporary vows, currently THREE postulants (the aspirant you mentioned recently became a postulant) one of whom is about to become a novice. Would they have entered if there wasn't Sister Blogger there bridging the generation gap? Maybe, but I'm sure her presence helped. Obviously that isn't everyone's calling but it does look like it was hers!
HopefulHeart Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 In my discernment of religious life, I have found myself naturally attracted to larger communities (DSMME, Nashville Dominicans, Daughters of St. Paul). My inclination to a larger community probably has something to do with my individual situation or my attraction to an active or active-comtemplative life, as opposed to a monastic life. I enjoy seeing the diversity of ages, backgrounds, and personalities within a large community. It is beautiful to see dozens of different women united in a community by love for Jesus. Of course, natural desires regarding community size should always be placed in the Lord's hands. :)
4LoveofJMJ Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 And also many people in the world right now have to be very in tune with technology for work/education reasons. This exposure to media would help the community as a whole with getting more publicity on the internet and other things. Exactly! If a community is seen whether out in public or on the internet, interest in the community is bound to happen. But if there is a cloistered community is out in the middle of no where with little to no internet presence, then no wonder there are hardly any new vocations! Of course the QUALITY of the website or internet presence is just as important. I don't know how many times I've gone on a community's website and not learn anything about the order itself! The DSMME, Nashville Dominicans, and the SOL have very nice and informative websites. They defiantly give you an idea on what the orders are about.
marigold Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 She's been there longer than that, but yes you're absolutely right and I think about her story a fair amount. She was the first one to enter and stay in a generation. Is anyone going to come after her? For a while nobody else did. When it was time for her to make perpetual profession there was a new postulant (if my math is right) but plenty of postulants discern out. Is she going to stay? Who knows? Since then there have been a bunch of new entrants. That postulant DID stay and is now perpetually professed, and there are two in temporary vows, currently THREE postulants (the aspirant you mentioned recently became a postulant) one of whom is about to become a novice. Would they have entered if there wasn't Sister Blogger there bridging the generation gap? Maybe, but I'm sure her presence helped. Obviously that isn't everyone's calling but it does look like it was hers! One of the things that does give me grief (though less as time passes) is not knowing whether I could have had this role in my former community. There was one sister ahead of me who hadn't yet been tonsured, and another young woman who asked to enter while I was there. I left and then the other two dropped out soon after... It's not a 'regret' as such, because I know God brings us good opportunities all the time, but the image of that potentially different community does haunt me.
krissylou Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 If you're looking for congregations with explosive growth, your list is going to be quite short. Among long-established communities, especially active ones, a lot of them had a ton of entrants mid-century and even if they have a steady inflow of vocations now it's not nearly the dozens of girls (yes, usually girls) that entered each year mid-century. In the five or so years I've been hanging around "my nuns" they've had as many perpetual professions as funerals. You could say that's "stagnant" but I can show you many vocations directors who would consider that an amazing level of vocations. But also, part of that is that this congregation came to the United States in the 1930s and never had the huge huge mid-century entering classes. If they'd had fifty girls entering each year from 1940-1960 then they'd be shrinking rapidly. Some of the big teaching or nursing orders would have several dozen girls (yes, usually girls) entering each year. Even if they have a lot of new vocations, those days aren't coming back anytime soon and the sisters who entered in mid-century are dying just because they're old and that's what happens. And a community that has a steady stream of vocations but well it isn't 1950 anymore so they're shrinking is in a different position than a congregation that has barely had anyone entering in decades. And sometimes there are young women who enter those formerly huge congregations that have had very few vocations in many years. A while back I saw a congregation announcing their two new postulants. One of them had become a lay associate of the community after she retired, but felt called to a deeper connection so she was entering as a Sister. She had to be in her 60s at least, I would think. (And God bless her for answering the call whenever it came!) And I'm guessing that as a 60something she was significantly below the average age of the congregation. The other was 25. And I kept thinking that she was so brave! (She's still there by the way, now in temporary vows.)
krissylou Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 One of the things that does give me grief (though less as time passes) is not knowing whether I could have had this role in my former community. There was one sister ahead of me who hadn't yet been tonsured, and another young woman who asked to enter while I was there. I left and then the other two dropped out soon after... It's not a 'regret' as such, because I know God brings us good opportunities all the time, but the image of that potentially different community does haunt me. Well, that's her calling (as far as any of us can tell from the outside). Doesn't mean it was yours. Maybe your calling is this new foundation and you needed to have that experience to see what can go wrong in order to do it well. Or maybe your calling is something entirely different that we don't know yet.
vee Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Just a random thought and that is for me the size of the community doesnt matter nearly as much as their faithfulness to the magisterium, Church teachings their charism and so forth.
Nunsuch Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 A dear friend of mine entered her (active) community as part of a class of 14. When she celebrated her Silver Jubilee, she was the only one still in. I asked her how she felt about it. She said: "I didn't enter for other people, and I didn't stay for other people. God called me, and God is why I have stayed." It's now several years later, and she is still there, and still happy.
brandelynmarie Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 A dear friend of mine entered her (active) community as part of a class of 14. When she celebrated her Silver Jubilee, she was the only one still in. I asked her how she felt about it. She said: "I didn't enter for other people, and I didn't stay for other people. God called me, and God is why I have stayed." It's now several years later, and she is still there, and still happy. Ultimately...This^^^ :blush:
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 One of the things that does give me grief (though less as time passes) is not knowing whether I could have had this role in my former community. There was one sister ahead of me who hadn't yet been tonsured, and another young woman who asked to enter while I was there. I left and then the other two dropped out soon after... It's not a 'regret' as such, because I know God brings us good opportunities all the time, but the image of that potentially different community does haunt me. I don't remember very much of what you posted when you returned, but if I remember correctly it sounded as if the Community was unhealthy psychologically (at least for you). If a Community is unhealthy for you, you can't serve God well. I know of at least one situation where a postulant entered (and stayed with) a Community where she was the youngest nun/Sister by 15-20(?) years or so. However, I don't think she was unhappy, or felt that the Community was not good for her psychologically. She ended up helping to revive the Community, but I don't think she could have done that if the Community was not the right place for her. The fact that both the Sister ahead of you and another young woman just behind you both left the Community, suggests to me that the Community's issues were not simply issues with regard to you. I don't think God would want a nun/Sister to stay in a Community that wasn't healthy for her emotionally and spiritually, on the possible chance that she might be the one who could change the Community over the long term. God needs Religious who are thriving in religious life. The Church needs Religious, but not at the cost of unhappiness in what is an unhealthy atmosphere for that person.
Sister Marie Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 This is interesting to me because I don't think I ever consciously thought while discerning about community size even though it is probably an important factor to consider. (Thankfully, it seems God considered that for me, lol, since I didn't seem to think about it myself!) A few other observations... When one enters an apostolic community that is large one must remember that she could be sent to a mission to live with three sisters one year and another mission of twenty sisters the next. Community living is very different in each of those situations and rarely can we control or predict accurately how we will respond and feel about this. There are positives and negatives to both types of living situations and each sister, depending on her personality, will find different things difficult. It is always interesting to me to think and talk about the future of religious life and the connection between stagnation or life and the size of a congregation is a complicated one. Size can be an indicator of the health and future of a congregation or it could not be - it is so dependent upon other factors as well. I would suggest though that there are some other ways to test the health of a congregation and their ability to move into the unknown future with trust and openness to God's will. Obviously, these are really subjective questions but I think any discerner who has known a community for a while could "talk at" them enough to get an idea. Is the community still willing to take risks? Are they still offering opportunities for ongoing formation for each sister? Is sacrificial love between the sisters evident? Can sisters disagree and discuss and be respected in the process? Are they open with one another about deeper experiences of God, prayer, ministry, and community life? Do they dream together about what the future might hold for a congregation they might not live to see? Are they planning for the future changes in community as numbers decrease? When they interact with one another, are they joyful and authentic? Do they laugh? If you can answer "yes" to these questions after really getting to know a congregation, I would say that's an indication that they are not stagnant but are fertile ground (in need of seeds and tending!) for future religious. I would imagine that many congregations like this exist and have not received many vocations in recent years. I would also imagine that some of the enormous congregations of past, even though they may have a steady stream of vocations right now, are shrinking drastically because there's just no way they are going to have 100 women enter in a year like they did in 1950. These congregations are not dead and dying. They are lacking new vocations but the women in them are very much alive and on fire for what they are doing and who they are.
TheresaThoma Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 Sr Marie good to see you around here again! An as always with well phrased wisdom.
Hemma Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 One of the things that does give me grief (though less as time passes) is not knowing whether I could have had this role in my former community. There was one sister ahead of me who hadn't yet been tonsured, and another young woman who asked to enter while I was there. I left and then the other two dropped out soon after... It's not a 'regret' as such, because I know God brings us good opportunities all the time, but the image of that potentially different community does haunt me. Dear me. I can understand you so well. However the reverse could be true as well. Maybe you remember my grief about two former members (at that time good friends of mine) of my former community who made a big campaign against the community. At first I thought: Maybe I could have prevented much of this if I had stayed, maybe I could have drawn them in another direction just by group dynamics, maybe they wouldn't have left, maybe... But then it became clear to me: I couldn't have hindered them. More probable is that they would have catched me. Maybe I would have made everything worse than it was? So I'm again in peace with my leaving (which was in God's plan, I am sure).
Obonitas! Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 Quality always. It is quality that sustains a good community, that draws quality members and can provide a good spiritual formation; one that is steady and firm. Size comes and goes. But quality stands firm,
totustuus20 Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 I'm really interested in a community that is big enough to be vibrant, but where the local communities are small enough to feel like a family. I really liked visiting a convent where there were 5 sisters because it really felt like a family and everyone was so close. It was great to know that there were 85 other sisters all over the world, though, because it means that the community is alive and well.
katherineH Posted January 26, 2015 Author Posted January 26, 2015 I'm really interested in a community that is big enough to be vibrant, but where the local communities are small enough to feel like a family. I really liked visiting a convent where there were 5 sisters because it really felt like a family and everyone was so close. It was great to know that there were 85 other sisters all over the world, though, because it means that the community is alive and well. Yes I agree! I think I could easily feel overwhelmed in a community like DSMME but I love the idea of small convents across the country that still feel like a large family.
Sister Marie Posted January 27, 2015 Posted January 27, 2015 When I moved from a community of five to one of more than fifteen I found I did miss the more intimate/family moments in community. I remember being especially "homesick" for my smaller community as I celebrated Christmas at a large community party instead of sitting with the five women I had lived with before. However, there are definitely some other bonuses to living with many versus few. Although we were certainly happy together in the small convent, there is constant laughter when there are a large number and if someone difficult is bothering you, you can take a temporary break from them in a large place. In a small convent there are no breaks. Many hands make light work in a larger community and the support you receive can be overwhelming in times of need. Regardless of size though, love is the most important factor. We all know that love is found where two or more are gathered in his name and, regardless of size, that is certainly what I've found in my sisters.
4LoveofJMJ Posted January 27, 2015 Posted January 27, 2015 While discerning, I've noticed that I have looked at the size of the communities. I remember looking into the Children of Mary but didn't think much of them because they seemed too new for me. Now they have about 10(?) professed sisters and have come back on my radar because of it. The size of a community that I'm joining is a bit important to me. I don't mind if the order is on the small side but not if there are only 3 professed sisters or something. I'm not the type of person that would like to be a guinea pig for a small, new community. I'm more of a tried and tested person. Unless God sends me some sort of spiritual 2x4 upside the head, I don't see it changing any time soon.
Sr Mary Brigid Posted January 27, 2015 Posted January 27, 2015 You all bring up such very good points. Now being a Novice in a small community myself, I think it's important to look at the community's history and keep in perspective not only where they've been, and where they are, but ALSO (more importantly) where (and how) they want to be going as they serve our dear Lord! I will also say that being open to being in a small and hopefully growing community demands a lot of "entrepeneurial" spirit: it demands a willingness to take on many roles and responsibilities as they come up, and a willingness to take more of an active role than one might have to in a larger community. There's no hiding in a small community! There is also a keen sense of adventure in joining a community that is small and poised for growth--if one is willing to contribute, dive in, take responsibility, and work, then one can sort of be like a 'founder' again in another wave of growth! These are very exciting times for those who are willing to be brave in the name of our Lord! We pray every day here in our convent for all of you in discernment....blessings to you all in your journey! (p.s.: We are having a "come and see" weekend Feb. 6-8 if anyone ages 20-50 wants to check out our particular small community!)
Marie Villalovos Smith Posted January 27, 2015 Posted January 27, 2015 I find it interesting that the Children of Mary have several Sisters with the black veil who only entered in 2013. Seems like a short period of time. Pax
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