Homosexual Catholic Irish Priest,

[ChristianGirlForever]

Agreed with OPI. If this priest did, in fact, ask his parish to support gay marriage, I'm on the "not cool" bandwagon. But I take no issue with the idea of him sharing that part of himself with his parish, for exactly the reasons OPI stated above.

I agree that in today's world, it would have been very helpful to all Catholics if he had said it properly. I don't believe he should have done it from the pulpit, though. I don't believe the priest should be talking about himself during that time. If he had said that he was homosexual, but was living a chaste and holy life, by the grace of God, I would have cheered. I still believe people should keep their private lives private, but in this day and age it isn't always the right thing to do.

[Nihil Obstat]

Agreed with OPI. If this priest did, in fact, ask his parish to support gay marriage, I'm on the "not cool" bandwagon. But I take no issue with the idea of him sharing that part of himself with his parish, for exactly the reasons OPI stated above.

Do you believe that the context of his homily is the appropriate place for that information?

I do not think so, but I am curious if anyone does.

[franciscanheart]

I agree that in today's world, it would have been very helpful to all Catholics if he had said it properly. I don't believe he should have done it from the pulpit, though. I don't believe the priest should be talking about himself during that time. If he had said that he was homosexual, but was living a chaste and holy life, by the grace of God, I would have cheered.

To be clear, I'm propping this portion of your post. 
 

Do you believe that the context of his homily is the appropriate place for that information?
I do not think so, but I am curious if anyone does.

Where do you believe he should have / could have shared that information? Do you believe the alternative setting would reach as many people? Would you have taken issue with a deacon giving a homily talking about his wife or his children?

[Nihil Obstat]

 
Where do you believe he should have / could have shared that information? Do you believe the alternative setting would reach as many people? Would you have taken issue with a deacon giving a homily talking about his wife or his children?

I do not really think it is a salient point during the homily, in the context of a Mass. Perhaps hold a retreat or a recollection, even reach out to the community after Mass in a less formal manner. Making it part of the homily seems to put his 'coming out' in the context of his teaching authority as pastor of the parish. In a certain sense it 'canonizes' what he is saying. If not for very well educated Catholics, at least for the average parishioner who probably gets all of their faith education from their parish priest.

I think it sets a somewhat dangerous precedent.

And yes, in the context of a homily given at Mass, I would personally not prefer the deacon to mention his wife or children. I simply do not think that is the place for it.

[Amppax]

I do not really think it is a salient point during the homily, in the context of a Mass. Perhaps hold a retreat or a recollection, even reach out to the community after Mass in a less formal manner. Making it part of the homily seems to put his 'coming out' in the context of his teaching authority as pastor of the parish. In a certain sense it 'canonizes' what he is saying. If not for very well educated Catholics, at least for the average parishioner who probably gets all of their faith education from their parish priest.

I think it sets a somewhat dangerous precedent.

And yes, in the context of a homily given at Mass, I would personally not prefer the deacon to mention his wife or children. I simply do not think that is the place for it.

 

What about when the readings clearly reference marriage? 

 

But, stepping back from that, do you believe that there is no place for personal sharing/anecdotes in a homily? Based on my experience, these sort of things can be used to great effect in a homily. 

[Nihil Obstat]

What about when the readings clearly reference marriage? 
 
But, stepping back from that, do you believe that there is no place for personal sharing/anecdotes in a homily? Based on my experience, these sort of things can be used to great effect in a homily.

What about when the readings clearly reference marriage?

Then the priest (or deacon) can certainly talk about marriage. But I am not sure he should talk about *his* marriage. In general, at any rate.
 

But, stepping back from that, do you believe that there is no place for personal sharing/anecdotes in a homily? Based on my experience, these sort of things can be used to great effect in a homily.

In my own experience, personal anecdotes add something substantive to the homily rarely, if ever. I think they are well suited for retreats and recollections as I said above, and in smaller groups, due to a more personal and less formal setting. I think the homily is better suited for explaining doctrine and theology, and teaching the meaning of Scripture. Personal anecdotes should be uncommon, minor, and brief, in my opinion.

[CrossCuT]

It seems to me that most catholics would find a homosexual priest an abomination (at least thats the impression) so regardless of the method in which he announced himself no one would be happy with it. 

 

A question I had a while ago that people refused to speculate on is if having homosexuality somehow made you unable to perform priestly duties since celibacy is the norm in the west. (The same extends to homosexual nuns, or any others in equivalent or related roles)

 

Could itbe a spiritual or social deterrent?

Spiritually,I would say no. But if you consider the social aspect, I also have to consider that a lot of Catholic congregations still have a large amount of homophobia. So the priest might put a wedge between himself and his congregation if they indeed felt uncomfortable with it. Should they get over that? Yes. But I admit that it might cause a problem with certain members who might take this as a compromise in his faith. 

 

Edit: I dont think anyone has suggested that he would be a poor priest because of his homosexuality, but it just reminded me of the question I had a while back. 

Edited January 19, 2015 by CrossCuT

[franciscanheart]

It seems to me that most catholics would find a homosexual priest an abomination (at least thats the impression) so regardless of the method in which he announced himself no one would be happy with it. 
 
A question I had a while ago that people refused to speculate on is if having homosexuality somehow made you unable to perform priestly duties since celibacy is the norm in the west. (The same extends to homosexual nuns, or any others in equivalent or related roles)
 
Could itbe a spiritual or social deterrent?
Spiritually,I would say no. But if you consider the social aspect, I also have to consider that a lot of Catholic congregations still have a large amount of homophobia. So the priest might put a wedge between himself and his congregation if they indeed felt uncomfortable with it. Should they get over that? Yes. But I admit that it might cause a problem with certain members who might take this as a compromise in his faith. 
 
Edit: I dont think anyone has suggested that he would be a poor priest because of his homosexuality, but it just reminded me of the question I had a while back.

If you start a new thread, I'd be happy to engage that dialogue. Don't want to derail here.

[Oremus Pro Invicem]

Then the priest (or deacon) can certainly talk about marriage. But I am not sure he should talk about *his* marriage. In general, at any rate.
 

In my own experience, personal anecdotes add something substantive to the homily rarely, if ever. I think they are well suited for retreats and recollections as I said above, and in smaller groups, due to a more personal and less formal setting. I think the homily is better suited for explaining doctrine and theology, and teaching the meaning of Scripture. Personal anecdotes should be uncommon, minor, and brief, in my opinion.

 

This is my opinion as well.  If anything a priest could say at the beginning of his homily that he would like to make an announcement to his parish after Mass in a parish meeting area, but to not use the pulpit as his place for 'coming out'. 

[Amppax]

Then the priest (or deacon) can certainly talk about marriage. But I am not sure he should talk about *his* marriage. In general, at any rate.

In my own experience, personal anecdotes add something substantive to the homily rarely, if ever. I think they are well suited for retreats and recollections as I said above, and in smaller groups, due to a more personal and less formal setting. I think the homily is better suited for explaining doctrine and theology, and teaching the meaning of Scripture. Personal anecdotes should be uncommon, minor, and brief, in my opinion.

I tend to think that this sort of thing would be used to help explain or illustrate a point, not be part of the homily at the expense of those other things. Both/and not either/or.

[Nihil Obstat]

I tend to think that this sort of thing would be used to help explain or illustrate a point, not be part of the homily at the expense of those other things. Both/and not either/or.

I would not complain using personal stories to illustrate a point. It is not my favourite, but I try not to be a grass mud horse about it.

I do think that 'coming out' during a homily totally crosses the line. No question in my mind. Even if our hypothetical priest remains celibate and continent. I would still find that a pastorally inappropriate addition to the homily.

[franciscanheart]

I would not complain using personal stories to illustrate a point. It is not my favourite, but I try not to be a grass mud horse about it.
I do think that 'coming out' during a homily totally crosses the line. No question in my mind. Even if our hypothetical priest remains celibate and continent. I would still find that a pastorally inappropriate addition to the homily.

Why?

[Amppax]

I would not complain using personal stories to illustrate a point. It is not my favourite, but I try not to be a grass mud horse about it.
I do think that 'coming out' during a homily totally crosses the line. No question in my mind. Even if our hypothetical priest remains celibate and continent. I would still find that a pastorally inappropriate addition to the homily.

Cool. As I figured, we're mostly in agreement.

[Nihil Obstat]

Why?

I already explained above.

[veritasluxmea]

I've seen this making the rounds. I'm pretty sure he's a real priest. He'll probably get a slap on the wrist, shuffled to a new parish, if that. Of course LGBTQ "marriage" supporters are happy about it, and people who don't support gay marriage aren't, and a bunch of people will be all "I support gay people but not gay marriage so *technically* what he's saying isn't bad." What's new?

 

I bet this turns into a never-ending gay debate thread. 

I just want to clarify that I wasn't saying he would be shuffled or disciplined for being gay, but for promoting gay marriage. I'm not sure if that was clear here, but now it is. 

Edited January 19, 2015 by veritasluxmea

[Amppax]

Why?

Well for one thing it distracts from the Mass. I imagine it would be a bomb shell for the congregation. Personally, I think a pastor's letter (at my parish it's part of the bulletin) would be a much more appropriate way to convey the message.

I know, I'm not Nihil, but hey! This is phatmass.

[franciscanheart]

Why?

I mean, why would that particular issue be inappropriate as an anecdote where other issues may not be? If you've already stated your reasoning, would you do me a solid and just quote yourself? I must have missed it if I'm asking again.
 

Well for one thing it distracts from the Mass. I imagine it would be a bomb shell for the congregation. Personally, I think a pastor's letter (at my parish it's part of the bulletin) would be a much more appropriate way to convey the message.

I know, I'm not Nihil, but hey! This is phatmass.

Ha. I don't mind you answering for yourself. I can see where in this day and time, it would be considered a bombshell. But I don't see why it should distract from the Mass any more than anecdotes about the family.

[Nihil Obstat]

Having a family and children is not evidence of an intrinsically disordered inclination. :idontknow: Not sure if I want that to be a P.S. to my post above, or a separate point.

 

Edit: I am not liking this feeling of impending doom, like using that term is going to call down a flamewar...

Edited January 19, 2015 by Nihil Obstat

[franciscanheart]

Having a family and children is not evidence of an intrinsically disordered inclination. :idontknow: Not sure if I want that to be a P.S. to my post above, or a separate point.
 
Edit: I am not liking this feeling of impending doom, like using that term is going to call down a flamewar...

I guess my point is this: I don't understand what sharing a struggle takes away from anything -- no matter than struggle. Especially when that struggle is so widely shared, but shamed and misunderstood. I don't think the whole homily needs to be about the priest and his sexuality, but I don't see where sharing that fact needs to be outlawed, even in a homily -- given, of course, that it's relevant and helpful. I also think that our priests and deacons teach much not in what they say, but rather, how they say it. The manner in which a priest carries himself and the way in which he might address something like this, in my opinion, has the potential to do much good.

[CrossCuT]

If you start a new thread, I'd be happy to engage that dialogue. Don't want to derail here.

 

Good suggestion! I indeed made a new thread.