Oremus Pro Invicem Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Why is it so difficult to find a nice chotki with beads and tassles that doesn't look like its been made at the yarn barn!? Any Eastern Catholic or Orthodox peeps know where I can puchase a nice chotki? Every time I find one I like they're sold out. Looking for one with dark colors. Beads. Tassels. Edited February 11, 2015 by dUSt
Oremus Pro Invicem Posted February 11, 2015 Author Posted February 11, 2015 Example: http://www.stspress.com/shop/gifts/wooden-chotki-50/#prettyPhoto
Nihil Obstat Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 Why is it so difficult to find a nice chotki with beads and tassles that doesn't look like its been made at the yarn barn!? Any Eastern Catholic or Orthodox peeps know where I can puchase a nice chotki? Every time I find one I like they're sold out. Looking for one with dark colors. Beads. Tassels. Hm. I bought a really nice one last year. I think I ordered it off chotki.com. http://www.chotki.com/Orthodox-Prayer-Ropes/100-knots.html Not the cheapest ones around, but it's good quality.
marigold Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 Do you mean that you don't want a woollen one?
Oremus Pro Invicem Posted February 11, 2015 Author Posted February 11, 2015 Do you mean that you don't want a woollen one? Correct! I'm looking for somthing like this:
PhuturePriest Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 Correct! I'm looking for somthing like this: I share in your struggle. Most chotkis have very indistinguishable knots, which is a major issue for me. It's very important that the knots/beads are distinguishable, or you'll lose where you are, plus they look nicer. I much prefer chotkis like the one you display, and ones like this:
marigold Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 I don't mean this unkindly, but... a rosary?
Oremus Pro Invicem Posted February 12, 2015 Author Posted February 12, 2015 I don't mean this unkindly, but... a rosary? LOL, negative. Anyway thanks for the help everyone. Praise God, I was able to find one! http://www.holytrinitystore.com/wooden-prayer-rope-50-knots-pr-36g.html
Luigi Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 The Cistercian nuns of Valley of Our Lady monastery make chotkis. Here's a link to a page whereon they explain the history and symbolism of the chotki. http://www.monasterycraftshop.com/handmadechotkis.html
PhuturePriest Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 This place is gold: http://www.easternchristiansupply.biz/-#festal/c48/c119/c515/g28822
Amppax Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) I don't mean this unkindly, but... a rosary? I don't know much about chotki's, and I don't share my fellow Latins Byzantiphilia (which means I know next to nothing about the topic) but I'm assuming this means that for it to be "authentic" it has to be woolen? Also, those are for praying the Jesus Prayer, right? Sidenote: Since when has every traddie and their mother become obsessed with Eastern devotions? Rosary not good enough for ya? :P Edited February 12, 2015 by Amppax
Nihil Obstat Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 I said I had one. Not that I use it. :| ;)
PhuturePriest Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 I don't know much about chotki's, and I don't share my fellow Latins Byzantiphilia (which means I know next to nothing about the topic) but I'm assuming this means that for it to be "authentic" it has to be woolen? Also, those are for praying the Jesus Prayer, right? Sidenote: Since when has every traddie and their mother become obsessed with Eastern devotions? Rosary not good enough for ya? :P Here's a brief history on the chotki. As you will find, it is actually a Catholic tradition, not an Orthodox one: https://thecatholicdormitory.wordpress.com/2013/12/10/how-to-pray-the-chotki/
Oremus Pro Invicem Posted February 12, 2015 Author Posted February 12, 2015 I don't know much about chotki's, and I don't share my fellow Latins Byzantiphilia (which means I know next to nothing about the topic) but I'm assuming this means that for it to be "authentic" it has to be woolen? Also, those are for praying the Jesus Prayer, right? Sidenote: Since when has every traddie and their mother become obsessed with Eastern devotions? Rosary not good enough for ya? :P My interest is due to my uncle who is in the Eastern Rite. We get together and share things and give each other religious gifts.
marigold Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 I don't know much about chotki's, and I don't share my fellow Latins Byzantiphilia (which means I know next to nothing about the topic) but I'm assuming this means that for it to be "authentic" it has to be woolen? Also, those are for praying the Jesus Prayer, right? Sidenote: Since when has every traddie and their mother become obsessed with Eastern devotions? Rosary not good enough for ya? :P Well yes, it is small-t traditional to make them out of wool. But there are also a lot of wooden ones, and even differently shaped ones (for example, ones that look more like wee ladders)... the point being that it's not a 'Religious Thing' but a tool. I would even say just a tool. That's how I was thinking when I suggested a rosary. I didn't realise that you guys would think that rosary beads are ONLY for praying the Hail Marys etc. And I'm a bit prickly towards the tendency of Christians outside the Orthodox Church to fetishise anything eastern and mystical-looking.
Amppax Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Well yes, it is small-t traditional to make them out of wool. But there are also a lot of wooden ones, and even differently shaped ones (for example, ones that look more like wee ladders)... the point being that it's not a 'Religious Thing' but a tool. I would even say just a tool. That's how I was thinking when I suggested a rosary. I didn't realise that you guys would think that rosary beads are ONLY for praying the Hail Marys etc. And I'm a bit prickly towards the tendency of Christians outside the Orthodox Church to fetishise anything eastern and mystical-looking. Oh no, I use my rosary for plenty of things, not just saying the rosary. Chaplet of divine mercy, I've used it before as an aid when I just wanted to say little prayers of thanks. Also, FP, I said it was Eastern, as opposed to Western. Yeah, the whole breathe with both lungs thing, but I'm personally uncomfortable with the fact that it often takes the form of faddish whims (not accusing you, or anyone here, of this) rather than actual devotion.
PhuturePriest Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Oh no, I use my rosary for plenty of things, not just saying the rosary. Chaplet of divine mercy, I've used it before as an aid when I just wanted to say little prayers of thanks. Also, FP, I said it was Eastern, as opposed to Western. Yeah, the whole breathe with both lungs thing, but I'm personally uncomfortable with the fact that it often takes the form of faddish whims (not accusing you, or anyone here, of this) rather than actual devotion. The Rosary itself is a faddish whim. Every baptized Catholic and his grandmother have rosaries hanging on the rear-view mirrors of their car, but 95% of those people don't use them, and most of them aren't even devout or even attend Mass. Gangs use the rosary as gang signs because it's part of their culture, not because it actually means something to them. It's no different than a traddie buying a chotki just because he thinks it looks cool. That being said, I am buying a chotki, and it's because I fully intend to have it in my pocket and use it constantly, not because I think it will make for a nice ornament. It's a nice devotion, and there's nothing wrong with westerners picking up eastern devotions.
PhuturePriest Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Well yes, it is small-t traditional to make them out of wool. But there are also a lot of wooden ones, and even differently shaped ones (for example, ones that look more like wee ladders)... the point being that it's not a 'Religious Thing' but a tool. I would even say just a tool. That's how I was thinking when I suggested a rosary. I didn't realise that you guys would think that rosary beads are ONLY for praying the Hail Marys etc. And I'm a bit prickly towards the tendency of Christians outside the Orthodox Church to fetishise anything eastern and mystical-looking. Rosaries are deemed in much higher regard than Orthodox view chotkis, I guess. We don't view them as mere tools, but sacred items that aid us in a sacred devotion. I won't even pray the Rosary if I don't have a rosary with me (Which is quite rare, as I always have one on me).
Oremus Pro Invicem Posted February 12, 2015 Author Posted February 12, 2015 Alright peeps. I didn't intend for this to be a rosary vs. chotki thread. As far as I'm concerned I found what I was looking for. The thread can be closed now. God bless.
Amppax Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) The Rosary itself is a faddish whim. This statement is preposterous. Is it faddish in popular culture? Sure. However, a fad in Catholic culture? Hardly. Every baptized Catholic and his grandmother have rosaries hanging on the rear-view mirrors of their car, but 95% of those people don't use them, and most of them aren't even devout or even attend Mass. Gangs use the rosary as gang signs because it's part of their culture, not because it actually means something to them. It's no different than a traddie buying a chotki just because he thinks it looks cool. Apples and oranges. I'm speaking about people who actually view and use the item for its religious purpose. That being said, I am buying a chotki, and it's because I fully intend to have it in my pocket and use it constantly, not because I think it will make for a nice ornament. It's a nice devotion, and there's nothing wrong with westerners picking up eastern devotions. Good for you, I specifically said I wasn't accusing anyone here of it. It's something I see in my neck of the woods. I suppose I wasn't clear in what my issue is. Sure, westerners picking up eastern devotions isn't necessarily a problem, but IMO, you should breathe with your own lung before switching to the other. Or something, I'm butchering the metaphor at this point. My point is that we should look first to the devotional/spiritual heritage of our own tradition, and not adopt something which has a much broader meaning that we, as outsiders, don't get. Maybe I'm overreacting (probably am) but that's just my .02 cents. Argh, I should clarify more. My own .02 is that there is an incredible spiritual depth in our own tradition, which I have seen people neglect out of a desire to "explore the East." I think that's a mistake. That's all. Sorry OPI, totally derailed your thread to get on a soapbox. Mea Culpa. Like I said before, I don't think any of y'all are doing this. Okay, I'm going to shut up now. Edited February 12, 2015 by Amppax
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