Guest JeffCR07 Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 ok cool, thanks a ton! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hananiah Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hananiah Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='phatcatholic' date='Jun 12 2004, 10:06 PM'] well, its news to me, but i don't really care............should i? [/quote] No, you shouldn't! That's very encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted June 14, 2004 Author Share Posted June 14, 2004 (edited) [quote name='RandomProddy' date='Jun 12 2004, 10:14 PM'] Well, it's wrong. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John xiv:6) [/quote] RandomProddy, actually my opponents thesis is that the Catholics teach that there are many mediators between God and men. But he didn't respond to my counter-comment on the second part of the thesis, so I let it slide. Edited June 14, 2004 by ICTHUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted June 14, 2004 Author Share Posted June 14, 2004 Hananiah, how does he take the Romans passage out of context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted June 14, 2004 Author Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='Hananiah' date='Jun 11 2004, 10:46 PM'] Well, I agree. Catholicism is a different gospel from Protestantism. However, it is the Catholic gospel which is found in the pages of the Bible. But before go into the specific passages that teach salvation can be lost, I'd like to take this fellow through a small exercise in logic: Faith is an act of the will in which man trusts God and believes everything which God has revealed to him. God infuses this virtue in us. Holding onto faith and avoiding sin is also an act of the will. God causes our perseverance by grace. If this fellow would apply his standards consistently, he would see that his assertion that having faith at one moment is a necessary condition for justification makes his soteriology just as anthropocentric and works-based as a soteriology in which having faith for one's entire life is a necessary condition for justification. As long as he maintains that man has to do something (have faith) in order to be saved, he has no logical grounds for denying that man might have to do something else (love, repent, work) to be saved, especially since in both cases God is the efficient cause of the thing man has to "do." [/quote] 'This fellow' is a Calvinist who believes that our having faith, even for a second, depends wholly on God's grace. Thus, his position is not anthropocentric at all, but Theocentric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hananiah Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 [quote name='ICTHUS' date='Jun 14 2004, 01:34 PM'] Hananiah, how does he take the Romans passage out of context? [/quote] I thought I explained that. He's using David's penitential psalm in support of a doctrine of one time, once and for all justification, whereas the psalm is about being rejustified after having lost salvation through sin. [quote]'This fellow' is a Calvinist who believes that our having faith, even for a second, depends wholly on God's grace. Thus, his position is not anthropocentric at all, but Theocentric.[/quote] I'm not denying that his positionis theocentric. I'm just pointing out that it is no more theocentric than the Catholic position, which maintains that holding onto one's faith or doing works depends wholly on God's grace. He has a double standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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