Consecrated virgins/hermits and the selfish single life

[Cecilia]

Problems arise when the vocation to be consecrated as a virgin -- is not comprehended in a proper manner. I advocate for age limits -- this is not to exclude good hearted seekers but to stress needed maturity -- for a woman who desires the consecration. I see many examples -- of holy yet inexperienced women -- that seek consecration but are not settled and mature. This leads to unhappiness. Certainly age limitations do not guarantee maturity -- I also advocate that a bishop must refuse consecration -- when women are immature. Childishness is rooted -- in our culture. The whims oremusl mentions and style of life that seeks entertainment -- more than prayer or spirituality. Various younger women might be consecrated despite age limits -- if the bishop approves -- yet it is most fruitful when a woman becomes the spouse of Christ -- once she has proven that she is steadfast after numerous years. To be consecrated is not a right -- yet some I have encountered -- want to think it should be given when requested - if the woman loves the Church. This is an attitude that hurts the vocation -- it populates the vocation with women who do not comprehend self sacrifice and patience.

[God's Beloved]

Nice to see you back after a long time.

Maturity involves several dimensions of life.  Some women may be spiritually mature at a young age but not professionally, in the sense that they are not well-settled in a community whether at the work place in the world or in the parish/ diocese that will encourage and support them for the rest of their lives.  This can come about only with time as relationships take time to mature.  Hence it would be good for young candidates to give time for community to happen.  In several countries young CV are fulfilling this need by forming associations that allow them to live together without the structures of religious life.  I personally would like to see this happen in more places.

The OCV itself as a vocation is maturing in today's world.  The understanding of the official Church/ Bishops too  is gradually developing.  In the meantime the crisis of identity and frustration can be healed only through a support system between CV.

[Cecilia]

It is nice to see you as well. I ask you to offer some prayers -- for my patient. I was with him all night -- yet his mother and aunt will arrive soon -- then I will get some sleep. He has end stage renal disease. He is not Catholic -- yet has permitted me to bless him with holy water.

The comments you make -- about types of maturity -- are good and needed.

[God's Beloved]

Yes, I'm praying for your patient. 

Consecrated life in general (in its various forms) seems  have a problem of immaturity.  Conferences of religious/ consecrated life express this concern.  Several religious women I know have shared with me how (in developing countries), the Institutes are seen as a safe haven for young women without prior educational or work experience.  When they join in their teenage or in their twenties, they are trained to obey their formator/ superior in every little thing, till the time of their final profession.  I've seen some will not even give a glass of water to a thirsty person without permission.  And after their final profession they are suddenly given leadership positions and responsibilities where they need to take decisions not only for themselves but also in collaboration with other leaders and people whom they serve.  They share with me how disoriented and helpless they feel because they have not learnt how to discern and take decisions for Years in their formation.

Candidates to consecrated virginity, if very young and without work experience, are disoriented like most other youth in today's fast-changing world.  They look with enthusiasm for authenticity and challenge in their faith life; and desire to have a clear identity and points of reference in life.  In this stage if they are consecrated hurriedly, they are bound to experience deep frustration that can break them.  Older candidates if ex-religious, also have not seen the 'world' and not able to discern or move out of a structured mind-set and style of functioning.  Some have not been strong enough to take a step toward life-time commitment in their youth, through marriage that demands self-giving, but regret it in later life, wanting to find meaning better late than never. 

I have never met one consecrated woman in my life ( whether monastic or apostolic religious or member of secular institute or lay association or movement or a consecrated virgin-- who gave witness to being a Wholistically mature person, able to respond Spontaneously and freely to demands of life and needs of people (maybe Mother Teresa of Calcutta had that maturity--but I never met her).  Maybe it is a gift of Founders which unfortunately is not found in their followers.   As a Counselor I found that consecrated persons in general have more neuroses than do lay people immersed in the real world out there.

The news about the meeting of formators in Rome last week seems to have laid emphasis on all vocations (including monastic and religious) to live their charisms 'in the world'.  This will break down the fortress mentality of creating walls between the sacred and the secular.

I think that is a great move toward Maturity!

P.S.  I do not intend to offend anyone here.  The above is my personal observation over the years.  It may be different in the West.

 

 

[BarbTherese]

Fascinating post, GB, reflecting some of my own private thoughts.  Thank you for sharing. 

May I ask where you are located (not in the West, I take it) and also if there is a link to a website to enable one to stay in touch with what is happening re Year of Consecrated Life?

​

[God's Beloved]

It's great to hear from you Barbara!

The news gets updated regularly on http://www.news.va/en  especially in the Italian version.  A modified version of the talk to formators in Rome last week is available on http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/concilio-vaticano-secondo-the-second-vatican-council-concilio-vaticano-secondo-40301/

Of course I'm in Asia.  Whatever happens in the West is usually repeated in the East after two or three decades.

[BarbTherese]

It's great to hear from you Barbara!

The news gets updated regularly on http://www.news.va/en  especially in the Italian version.  A modified version of the talk to formators in Rome last week is available on http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/concilio-vaticano-secondo-the-second-vatican-council-concilio-vaticano-secondo-40301/

Of course I'm in Asia.  Whatever happens in the West is usually repeated in the East after two or three decades.

​I regularly, it seems, come across your posts, GB, and great to be 'speaking' with you again.  I do an awful lot of reading, not much writing/posting at all in comparison lately. 

Thank you very much for the links, much appreciated!

[oremus1]

Problems arise when the vocation to be consecrated as a virgin -- is not comprehended in a proper manner. I advocate for age limits -- this is not to exclude good hearted seekers but to stress needed maturity -- for a woman who desires the consecration. I see many examples -- of holy yet inexperienced women -- that seek consecration but are not settled and mature. This leads to unhappiness. Certainly age limitations do not guarantee maturity -- I also advocate that a bishop must refuse consecration -- when women are immature. Childishness is rooted -- in our culture. The whims oremusl mentions and style of life that seeks entertainment -- more than prayer or spirituality. Various younger women might be consecrated despite age limits -- if the bishop approves -- yet it is most fruitful when a woman becomes the spouse of Christ -- once she has proven that she is steadfast after numerous years. To be consecrated is not a right -- yet some I have encountered -- want to think it should be given when requested - if the woman loves the Church. This is an attitude that hurts the vocation -- it populates the vocation with women who do not comprehend self sacrifice and patience.

​
What do you think of this? : http://sponsa-christi.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/young-vocations.html

I tend to agree with Sponsa, that actually, candidates should be young but not immature.

By 'settled' do you mean, set in a particular way of life?

[God's Beloved]

I do believe that youth is the best time to answer the call to CV, for the motivations to be authentic and Christ-oriented.  It involves sacrifice.

What I am concerned is young women in their 20s being consecrated with hardly a year or two of preparation which itself is not well-developed for CV in most parts of the world.

Since this is a diocese-based vocation and the charism of virginity calls us 'to keep the Faith Whole and Entire' I've always thought that the best formation for young candidates would be a complete training in theology.  Young vocations to the diocesan priesthood go through several years of formation.  CV is not clerical life but it involves service to the Church as a collaborator of the bishop.  How important it is for CV to receive all-round formation before consecration !

[oremus1]

I do believe that youth is the best time to answer the call to CV, for the motivations to be authentic and Christ-oriented.  It involves sacrifice.

What I am concerned is young women in their 20s being consecrated with hardly a year or two of preparation which itself is not well-developed for CV in most parts of the world.

Since this is a diocese-based vocation and the charism of virginity calls us 'to keep the Faith Whole and Entire' I've always thought that the best formation for young candidates would be a complete training in theology.  Young vocations to the diocesan priesthood go through several years of formation.  CV is not clerical life but it involves service to the Church as a collaborator of the bishop.  How important it is for CV to receive all-round formation before consecration !

​What do you understand by "service to the church"?

For example, if there was a pious lady who felt called to the spousal charism, but was not very intelligent. however she spend most of her free time praying, and arranging flowers in church. could she be a CV?

and at a time when many diocese see CV as burdensome, who would pay for the CV to complete the priesthood type theological training? cant see the diocese paying since there is no obligation for her to work for them, or even any theological occupation. some work as dance teachers, firefighters, accountants, doctors, teachers, all kinds of jobs.

also, if a doctor was working 80 hours a week but wanted to be a CV, how would they study a theology degree while working so many hours, and keeping her prayer schedule?

[oremus1]

 

Let us not forget, married people are witnesses too. how long is their "formation" in the vocation of matrimony? sometimes, several monthly meetings over 6 months. sometimes. one weekend of 'marriage encounter'.

[God's Beloved]

Dear Oremus1,

Let us not 'limit' the vocation of CV to the spousal dimension.  There are three aspects to the charism.  "a virgin to keep the faith whole and entire, a bride to be one with him forever; and a mother to raise up the family of the Church." ( homily in the rite).  The candidate needs to understand and be prepared to receive the grace of the Holy Spirit in these areas.  Formation in all three aspects is important although one or the other aspect may be more developed in a CV according to her personality, God's gift and choice, and the needs of the local Church community.  The dimension of virginity shines in youth, spousal life matures by middle age through times of testing ( good times and bad, sickness and health) and motherhood although it begins in youth- is at its perfection in old age, with its wisdom.  No candidate can develop these qualities overnight or through some crash course of understanding the vocation 'intellectually'.

The ordinary way God uses to form us in Christian life and Consecrated life is through Mother Church.  Receiving a formation of the heart through the agency of the Holy Spirit alone cannot be ruled out but is an extra-ordinary means God is free to choose.  In fact a CV herself is called to play this role of the Church as Mother, to form her children in the faith.  How can a CV do this if she herself is not formed as a teacher?  CV is a very difficult vocation in today's world.  It is so unique, beautiful and deep; it can do so much good to the Church that having well formed CV living the vocation qualitatively is very important.  This task of discernment and formation should be a heavy burden happily borne by bishops for the good of the Church.

No doubt a pious woman who prays a lot and does ordinary tasks in the Church may feel the call.  It is upto the bishop to decide as every individual is unique.  However discernment of vocation involves seeing whether the candidate has the potential for the Essentials of a Charism to develop.  There cannot be a standard uniformity of formation programs for CV around the world as every diocese is different.  I myself received consecration at a very young age.  Then while I was working for my diocese  I also studied theology.  I prayed while traveling.  It was difficult no doubt  but the seminarians often commented how my theology was connected with the concerns of the poor and suffering because I was in daily contact with people I served as a doctor, counselor, RCIA catechist, trainer, small christian community animator and what not.  CV is a very active life. 

The vocation to marriage is often preceded by long periods of courtship / engagement.  The Church sees the need of greater preparation in this area.  However let us not forget that married life as a lay vocation has its formation for living in the area of job/ profession etc.  The vocation of CV is one step further from Christian life.  As a leader, pastoral worker  she needs to be well formed for the vocation to shine, be accepted[ which is the most difficult problem faced by most CV] as it is so misunderstood.

 

[God's Beloved]

due to the kind of problems related to CV being treated as a fallback vocation and lack of formation before consecration,  it is even more important that leaders in the Church and experienced CV ( who have learnt lessons from their own life the hard way)  should step in and warn candidates not to fall prey to the same sins of omission by Church leaders.

I personally would prefer the Church consecrating very few women in this vocation and discerning genuine vocations qualitatively, who have the capacity of self-giving.

[oremus1]

due to the kind of problems related to CV being treated as a fallback vocation and lack of formation before consecration,  it is even more important that leaders in the Church and experienced CV ( who have learnt lessons from their own life the hard way)  should step in and warn candidates not to fall prey to the same sins of omission by Church leaders.

I personally would prefer the Church consecrating very few women in this vocation and discerning genuine vocations qualitatively, who have the capacity of self-giving.

​
There is a difference in a capacity for self giving, and having a higher education in theology.
Personally, I think the capacity for self giving and being an integrated person committing for the right reasons would actually be well established by a psychological test or even a series of interviews.
 

​
For example, if there was a pious lady who felt called to the spousal charism, but was not very intelligent. however she spend most of her free time praying, and arranging flowers in church. could she be a CV?

and at a time when many diocese see CV as burdensome, who would pay for the CV to complete the priesthood type theological training? cant see the diocese paying since there is no obligation for her to work for them, or even any theological occupation. some work as dance teachers, firefighters, accountants, doctors, teachers, all kinds of jobs.

also, if a doctor was working 80 hours a week but wanted to be a CV, how would they study a theology degree while working so many hours, and keeping her prayer schedule?

​Please answer my practical questions above and below.

Are you saying the pious lady who is very prayerful cannot be a CV because she isn't smart enough?
Who is bearing the costs of the CVs study, when she has no obligation to repay the diocese though specific works or jobs?
In the USA, it is not required for CV to have advanced theological degrees and in fact many of them do not. Are you saying the USCCB is wrong ?

[oremus1]

Also, having a theology degree is not the same as understanding the vocation intellectually. One can have even a masters in theology but still never have read Vita Consecrata.

Did St Agnes have a theology degree? St Agatha? St Cecilia? St Genevieve? Our Lady?

[God's Beloved]

Dear Oremus1

I'll be very happy if you read my comments in context.  If you read carefully, every comment of mine is not directed to your questions. We are not here to defend any theses or personal positions regarding matters related to OCV.  We are here  for sharing and solidarity in the vocation to consecrated life. 

1. By now it should be clear to you that OCV is a Diocese-based vocation.

2. While the essential elements of the vocation are clearly set by the Universal Church, it is upto the diocesan bishop to decide the peripheral matters in consultation with the candidate or CV. (you may read http://ocvnewevangelisation.blogspot.in/2015/04/essence-accidentals-of-consecrated.html )

Every context is different.  In my diocese it is fairly easy for the average person to attend a variety of courses in theology, scriptural studies, liturgy, family ministry, catechetics etc. etc. over week-ends or regular college attached to the seminary.  In other dioceses around the world it may be difficult, different...

3. I have not said that every CV should have a Masters of Doctorate in theology.  Even priests normally don't require that.  Seminaries don't merely see to intellectual but wholistic formation.  The common problem encountered by CV who do not have any formal training is that Clergy refuse to involve them as collaborators in ministry.  They prefer taking help from religious who have several years of formation.  This will make sense only to a CV who is insulted as a third class vocation or non-vocation.

4. How integrated a candidate is in her preparedness for consecration is dependent on the bishop's judgment.  Some are too happy to find cheap labor in the vocation of CV and hurry with the consecrations.

5.  Surely uneducated and pious women may be MUCH BETTER human persons and Christians.  They may be better brides of Christ in God's eyes  than maybe myself or any other woman who has received the consecration according to canon 604.  Several of the virgin-martyrs did not receive any formal consecration.  They lived and died with private or no vows, often to defend the integrity of the faith. 

So too, some women who would like to receive public consecration and live their vocation and service in the name of the Church, would do better by making private vows instead.

6. The USCCB is an episcopal conference of a country that is different from where I live.  The USACV as far as I know, is not a private or public association of the faithful in the Church.  It  is registered with the State. but has an Episcopal adviser.   Every diocese or Episcopal conference has its own criteria.  No particular Church body can claim a Monopoly on deciding how the vocation should be lived all over the world.

 

[oremus1]

Dear Oremus1

I'll be very happy if you read my comments in context.  If you read carefully, every comment of mine is not directed to your questions. We are not here to defend any theses or personal positions regarding matters related to OCV.  We are here  for sharing and solidarity in the vocation to consecrated life.

1. By now it should be clear to you that OCV is a Diocese-based vocation.

2. While the essential elements of the vocation are clearly set by the Universal Church, it is upto the diocesan bishop to decide the peripheral matters in consultation with the candidate or CV. (you may read http://ocvnewevangelisation.blogspot.in/2015/04/essence-accidentals-of-consecrated.html )

Every context is different.  In my diocese it is fairly easy for the average person to attend a variety of courses in theology, scriptural studies, liturgy, family ministry, catechetics etc. etc. over week-ends or regular college attached to the seminary.  In other dioceses around the world it may be difficult, different...

3. I have not said that every CV should have a Masters of Doctorate in theology.  Even priests normally don't require that.  Seminaries don't merely see to intellectual but wholistic formation.  The common problem encountered by CV who do not have any formal training is that Clergy refuse to involve them as collaborators in ministry.  They prefer taking help from religious who have several years of formation.  This will make sense only to a CV who is insulted as a third class vocation or non-vocation.

4. How integrated a candidate is in her preparedness for consecration is dependent on the bishop's judgment.  Some are too happy to find cheap labor in the vocation of CV and hurry with the consecrations.

5.  Surely uneducated and pious women may be MUCH BETTER human persons and Christians.  They may be better brides of Christ in God's eyes  than maybe myself or any other woman who has received the consecration according to canon 604.  Several of the virgin-martyrs did not receive any formal consecration.  They lived and died with private or no vows, often to defend the integrity of the faith.

So too, some women who would like to receive public consecration and live their vocation and service in the name of the Church, would do better by making private vows instead.

6. The USCCB is an episcopal conference of a country that is different from where I live.  The USACV as far as I know, is not a private or public association of the faithful in the Church.  It  is registered with the State. but has an Episcopal adviser.   Every diocese or Episcopal conference has its own criteria.  No particular Church body can claim a Monopoly on deciding how the vocation should be lived all over the world.

 

​In response to your points

1. I never said it wasn't
2. Exactly. It is up to the Bishop to determine what is required. If you wish to complete advanced studies, that is your personal choice. But academic study does not equate to holiness. A CV with a doctorate could theoretically be less faithful to the charism or less holy than one without any higher education.  
3. If you research what is meant by 'service to the church' by those who were actually involved in the revision of the Rite, you would see that *working* for the church is actually not required, nor was it envisaged as a necessary central aspect of the vocation. As such, advanced vocational or theological degrees are not necessary to be of service to the church.

4. It is up to the Bishop to consecrate. His precise reasons for choosing to do so, be it 'cheap labour' or otherwise, do not invalidate the consecration.

5. If a person feels called to a charism, and that call is mutually discerned and confirmed by the Church, then really, who are you to judge that the woman 'would do better making private vows instead'? My point above, is that very many virgins and virgin martyrs did not have advanced theological education. Do you think you are a better CV than one without a higher education?

6.  There are objective answers to most questions about the vocation, which were already considered in great detail at the time the rite was revised. The problem is, people are relying on their own personal attempts at interpreting the Rite, their feelings about the vocation, and 'borrowing' from religious life to answer the questions. Instead of actually learning the necessary languages, and making it their business to obtain the relevant documents and read them. I am not saying ALL CV need to do this, but ones who want to, can, and ones involved in formation of CV would do well to do so also.

[Gabriela]

Pardon the interruption, but this thread is starting to go the way of most CV threads in the VS, so I just want to point out what I think has happened. It seems to me that oremus1 has perceived Sponsa's posts as "intellectualist", i.e., as suggesting that only educated/intellectual women would make good CVs. That set off a knee-jerk reaction of disagreement on pretty much every other point.

Now everybody is defensive and getting a little aggressive.

Might I suggest that we all calm down and remember that internet forums all too commonly lead us to misinterpret one another's meanings, leading us to believe that we disagree when in fact we agree...?

[marigold]

Yes, right behind you Gabriela.

[Sponsa-Christi]

Also, another reason to try to keep the tone friendly and civil is that we don't want all the CV threads to be moved to Debate Table! That would make it harder for women who need information on consecrated virginity to find some of the helpful conversations that have occurred in these threads.