KnightofChrist Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 lol. Because I reject the idea of time travel I have a dark view of the world? I reject time travel precisely because it would negate reality, the actual human condition and the world that is, around which Christianity has developed its assumptions and approaches to life. I reject time travel because I believe in being human, and in the Christian ideas of redemption and free will. I prefer the sinners and saints of the real world, not covering up footprints and negating people's actions through time. Give me sin and death and life, not formless shapeshifting through time. Depressing because of the argument that time travel would cause reality to be meaningless and void of morality. If time travel is possible it has already happened, is happening and will happen. We live in a world that has morality, where life is not meaningless. So either time travel is possible and is happening and it does not effect morality or it doesn't happen and never will and morality still exist. Unless one wants to argue that if we were to go back in time we would not change our timeline but rather create another dimension which was created with the divergent change in the primary time line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Depressing because of the argument that time travel would cause reality to be meaningless and void of morality. If time travel is possible it has already happened, is happening and will happen. We live in a world that has morality, where life is not meaningless. So either time travel is possible and is happening and it does not effect morality or it doesn't happen and never will and morality still exist. Unless one wants to argue that if we were to go back in time we would not change our timeline but rather create another dimension which was created with the divergent change in the primary time line. That's a big assumption you make, that "we live in a world that has morality, where life is not meaningless." Many would disagree. And you speak of those things as though they exist apart from a context. The Christian view of meaning and morality exists in an historical context, a view of the world, a "Weltanschauung." The collapse of Christianity is already in large part due to the rupture in the view of reality in the modern world. This is a bit beyond the topic of this thread, but not really. The Greek myths dealt with this a long time ago, with characters such as Prometheus and Icarus. To have a philosophy, a religion, a spirituality, is not just a matter of abstract doctrines, but a preservation of a way of being in the world. The Christian experience is completely alien to the things like time travel and modern modes of thinking about technology, science, etc. more generally. When you rupture men from the soil, from the earth, from a cosmos that is a harmony and an earth-bound celebration of joy, redemption, peace, brotherhood, asceticism, community, then the Christian experience disappears (as it already has). Time travel WOULD mean the world is meaningless and illusory and void of morality...and these are the conclusions that most scientists and modern men have already come to, even without time travel. Stephen Hawking is an atheist. I reject the premise of time travel, not even for scientific reasons, but because I believe in what it means to have a human, Incarnated experience which Christianity has shaped in the West, and I do not want to replace this for an abstract and disincarnated world of time traveling fantasy (if it were even possible, and even that I do not accept, but that's beside the point, because whether it is or it isn't I would still stick to the human experience, the Incarnate experience). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I presume that you presume that reality exist, that that we exist within it. Can you prove it? Nevermind, lol, I'm really not interested in derailing this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Purgatory may be entering different time lines in parallel universes. At first glance one may argue this would be reincarnation which is condemned by the Church. Although it wouldn't be reincarnation because you would be the same exact person. If purgatory entails us having a physical body then this seems to be a real possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Just read no physical bodies in purgatory. Is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Just read no physical bodies in purgatory. Is this correct? Correct. But you will be reunited with your physical body at the end of time. ("I believe in the resurrection of the body, etc.") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 If time travel was real... wouldn't we have an obligation to go back and help people as much as possible? If you are able to save someone, you should. We could save children from the holocaust, vaccinate Native Americans against small pox, or even just travel back a week or two and save the local teen from getting hit by a drunk driver. We could prevent forced abortions, rapes, kidnappings, murders. Imagine if someone came back to today with a cure or vaccination for cancer or AIDS! If we were able to save even just one person, would we have the obligation to do so? Why not "everyone?" Think about the implications. Crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 If time travel was real... wouldn't we have an obligation to go back and help people as much as possible? If you are able to save someone, you should. We could save children from the holocaust, vaccinate Native Americans against small pox, or even just travel back a week or two and save the local teen from getting hit by a drunk driver. We could prevent forced abortions, rapes, kidnappings, murders. Imagine if someone came back to today with a cure or vaccination for cancer or AIDS! If we were able to save even just one person, would we have the obligation to do so? Why not "everyone?" Think about the implications. Crazy. If time travel were real, then why did the Holocaust happen at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 If time travel was real... wouldn't we have an obligation to go back and help people as much as possible? If you are able to save someone, you should. We could save children from the holocaust, vaccinate Native Americans against small pox, or even just travel back a week or two and save the local teen from getting hit by a drunk driver. We could prevent forced abortions, rapes, kidnappings, murders. Imagine if someone came back to today with a cure or vaccination for cancer or AIDS! If we were able to save even just one person, would we have the obligation to do so? Why not "everyone?" Think about the implications. Crazy. Time travel opens up way too many paradoxes. Could a person go back and kill their ancestors and then not be born? Wouldn't some people want to go save Kennedy or kill Hitler or even prevent Jesus from dying on the Cross? I'm not saying they could but that's why the whole thing is so confusing. Perhaps if we could go back and just observe - ok, but the idea that we could actually do something to change anything opens up more complex problems than ever imagined. And who's to say that everyone who had access to time travel would be a good person? Evil could wreck havok by going back in time. I love the concepts involved and read lots of time travel novels but the reality is too frightening to imagine - it's like the atomic bomb - once it's done, there's no going back. So I hope it is never made possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 ^I've heard a theory that time travel is logically impossible, for some of the reasons you guys raised, and therefore can't happen. Or something like that. I believe the theory of parallel/alternative/multi universes was created to handle the illogical problems with time travel? But I don't think parallel/alternative/multi universes are real, so because of it's illogicality I'd say time travel is just impossible. It's not a matter of "bending" the physical universe, it's a matter of bending logic itself. If you could do that, you could make right wrong and wrong right in everyday, non-time traveling life. But still, if you could time travel, would you have an obligation to save and help people? I'd argue yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Time traveling to the past is impossible. Only to the future is a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I believe the theory of parallel/alternative/multi universes was created to handle the illogical problems with time travel? I believe those theories are mainly a consequence of research in theoretical physics and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Purgatory may I believe the theory of parallel/alternative/multi universes was created to handle the illogical problems with time travel? Actually the main reason was for atheist to explain the fine tuning that allows life and planets. If this is the only universe it's impossible that this could come about by random chance. You would actually need more then trillions and trillions of universes for this one not to be considered fine tuned. When I talk about parallel universes I'm doing so with the idea that God is involved. So the other universes are just as fine tuned and most likely interconnected to this one. Perhaps every single person has their own universe. Perhaps space and time are something like a shell on a turtle that we carry around while we are in the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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