Nihil Obstat Posted May 15, 2015 Posted May 15, 2015 Yikes, any...neutral...articles that describe what happened from start to now? Why were they assigned someone for oversight? Yes, I am sure there are some.
veritasluxmea Posted May 15, 2015 Posted May 15, 2015 Yikes, any...neutral...articles that describe what happened from start to now? Why were they assigned someone for oversight? The reasons behind it are complicated and internal; Catholic religious orders don't have same value of transparency that, say, an American business has. I think we can all agree that the intervention was badly carried out, and that's putting it lightly. However, no one outside the leadership in the order can really say it was/wasn't unnecessary, a persecution, this or that. Heck, if their leadership's a mess they probably don't even know. I'm very sympathetic to traditional orders and wary of bias against traditionalism too- it may be true that plays a part here, but that's not all there is to the situation. Suffice it to say I have personally spent time with the sisters and spoken to an adult who has spent time with the friars, and there's... room for improvement. Actually, there are some very concerning issues with them- I personally think it might be the province of God to prevent them from getting worse and end up coming out stronger and better many years down the road, with their charism intact. Or maybe not. *shrugs* It's one thing to be accountable and aware of what's going on, it's another to want the details of the whole order's politics and mess. At the end of the day, religious orders don't owe all the laity a detailed explanation of their internal politics and struggles. Also, Fr Volpi has stepped down as commissioner due to health reasons. Another one will be appointed at some time.
Mary+Immaculate<3 Posted May 16, 2015 Posted May 16, 2015 I kinda wish the world could work without money...you know, the way St. Francis wanted his brothers to live.
Nihil Obstat Posted May 16, 2015 Posted May 16, 2015 I kinda wish the world could work without money...you know, the way St. Francis wanted his brothers to live. You always have to sacrifice something you do have in order to get something you do not. For as long as there is scarcity of any type there will be trade, and currency is simply the most efficient means by which we coordinate trade.
Nihil Obstat Posted May 16, 2015 Posted May 16, 2015 I'm a dreamer... I have had discussions in the past about the concept of a post-scarcity society. It is kind of a science fiction/futurology idea, but perhaps some day, many many centuries from now... It is certainly conceptually possible to develop an energy source which is abundant enough that it might as well be free. Not practically possible yet, but who knows.
veritasluxmea Posted May 16, 2015 Posted May 16, 2015 I personally think it might be the province of God to prevent them from getting worse and end up coming out stronger and better many years down the road, with their charism intact. Sorry, I was typing fast and that came out wrong. I meant to say: "I personally think it might be the province of God to prevent them from getting worse and they may end up coming out stronger and better many years down the road, with their charism intact."
marigold Posted May 16, 2015 Posted May 16, 2015 I have had discussions in the past about the concept of a post-scarcity society. It is kind of a science fiction/futurology idea, but perhaps some day, many many centuries from now... It is certainly conceptually possible to develop an energy source which is abundant enough that it might as well be free. Not practically possible yet, but who knows. Have you read Stranger In A Strange Land? It's been a while but I vividly remember a scene in the one dude's utopia/harem where they have bowls of money at the door, and everybody just took what they needed and money stopped having this huge symbolic power.
Nihil Obstat Posted May 16, 2015 Posted May 16, 2015 Have you read Stranger In A Strange Land? It's been a while but I vividly remember a scene in the one dude's utopia/harem where they have bowls of money at the door, and everybody just took what they needed and money stopped having this huge symbolic power. I think I have..... but it was so long ago that I cannot remember it.
Cherie Posted May 16, 2015 Posted May 16, 2015 I'm not wanting a detailed explanation of their internal affairs; that's not my business. Having been in religious life myself for several years, I'm simply interested to know what is going on, hopefully from a non-biased source, since I have no real idea. New communities particularly are susceptible to a LOT of problems that are not known--and don't need to be known--to the outside world. My first inclination--while knowing hardly anything about it--is that someone was assigned to help iron out these kinks in formation, since the community has seemingly gotten so large, before it turns into a problem that can't be fixed. I'm just curious as to why there's such a hullabaloo. Because people think it's all about the Latin Mass? That certain leaders in the Church are trying to clamp down on traditional-leaning communities because of their affinity for tradition? That's so superficial, and IMO, it's probably not anything to do with that, per se.
truthfinder Posted May 17, 2015 Posted May 17, 2015 I'm not wanting a detailed explanation of their internal affairs; that's not my business. Having been in religious life myself for several years, I'm simply interested to know what is going on, hopefully from a non-biased source, since I have no real idea. New communities particularly are susceptible to a LOT of problems that are not known--and don't need to be known--to the outside world. My first inclination--while knowing hardly anything about it--is that someone was assigned to help iron out these kinks in formation, since the community has seemingly gotten so large, before it turns into a problem that can't be fixed. I'm just curious as to why there's such a hullabaloo. Because people think it's all about the Latin Mass? That certain leaders in the Church are trying to clamp down on traditional-leaning communities because of their affinity for tradition? That's so superficial, and IMO, it's probably not anything to do with that, per se. From what I've read (granted from rather Rorate-like sources), there were other concerns: things like governance of property, formation of seminarians. But the Latin-Mass is certainly part of it. To basically ban the the EF everywhere, to instantly shut the seminary (which was teaching the EF), is more than just other concerns.
veritasluxmea Posted May 17, 2015 Posted May 17, 2015 I'm not wanting a detailed explanation of their internal affairs; that's not my business. Having been in religious life myself for several years, I'm simply interested to know what is going on, hopefully from a non-biased source, since I have no real idea. New communities particularly are susceptible to a LOT of problems that are not known--and don't need to be known--to the outside world. My first inclination--while knowing hardly anything about it--is that someone was assigned to help iron out these kinks in formation, since the community has seemingly gotten so large, before it turns into a problem that can't be fixed. I'm just curious as to why there's such a hullabaloo. Because people think it's all about the Latin Mass? That certain leaders in the Church are trying to clamp down on traditional-leaning communities because of their affinity for tradition? That's so superficial, and IMO, it's probably not anything to do with that, per se. That makes sense; I don't mean to imply that you want a detailed explanation of their internal affairs, but that because it's so complicated and internal it's be hard to get even a simple explanation without private details. I think your first instinct is correct, a lot of the hullabaloo seems to be people's impressions and speculations. Granted they're not completely unfounded- it was badly carried out and perhaps that's due to prejudice- but at the end of the day, I can't find anything concrete to explain it one way or another. So in regards to the situation I can only rely on my personal experiences, which line up with what truthfinder posted.
Ark Posted May 17, 2015 Posted May 17, 2015 They were a Roman Catholic order restoring the Traditional Latin Mass back to ordinary use. To the higher ups this anti-VII behavior and is worse than the local habitless nun preaching heresy and progressive ideology. They were chosen as a signal to other orders that this is unacceptable. It's been 50 years since the council, the Church is in shambles, but we must praise V2 and there is no going back, as our holy father Pope Francis recently said.
Ark Posted May 17, 2015 Posted May 17, 2015 Just ask your self, of all the orders, were they the ones in most need of Vatican intervention? Hmmm
NadaTeTurbe Posted May 17, 2015 Posted May 17, 2015 It's not because an order preaches the Truth, that internally, everything's perfect. Satan knew the Bible by heart. (I am not comparing them to Satan, of course. They are not of my spirituality - I am not Franciscan, I love the Novus Ordo, and I am very against the dogma of Mary Co-redemptrix, and the only time I meet them, they were joyful preacher, very dedicated to the poor. They also believed in Medjugorge, wich is a big NO.) It's been 50 years since the council, the Church is in shambles, but we must praise V2 and there is no going back, as our holy father Pope Francis recently said. Thanks to God, there is no going back. Vatican II is a treasure for the Church. I hope you are happy in the SSPX.
Ark Posted May 17, 2015 Posted May 17, 2015 I'm not in the SSPX, I'm just a Roman Catholic. I attend a parish that celebrates a Romanized Novus Ordo and has a Latin Mass.
Cherie Posted May 17, 2015 Posted May 17, 2015 Just ask your self, of all the orders, were they the ones in most need of Vatican intervention? Hmmm Actually, I know a handful of Orders currently going through an "intervention" of sorts. This Order's is just particularly public, for some reason.
hotpink Posted May 18, 2015 Posted May 18, 2015 Just ask your self, of all the orders, were they the ones in most need of Vatican intervention? Hmmm There are tons of orders that the vatican investigats. But really, this one gets all the news beucase people somehow see them the maryter. I know I'm not Catholic so I sholdn't have a voice but the whole contentionusness between the Pre VatII crowd and the post are so insane that I can't really stand it. I think that the current Pope is a really nice guy who just stated facts. Vatican 2 is the way of law. We can appreciate older forms but they are not the law. Oh and to the other poster. I think I was thinking of the CFR's. I know I did stuff with the FFI's tho. At any rate this whole Catholic angst betwen the old mass and the new mass is one of the reasons I'm hesitant to join the church. I don't get why some people can't understand that the church chose the move and that it's not all some big nightmare mistake and that with the right pope all of the sudden old mass will be the norm and new mass will never be said again. I sometimes feel like that's the hope of old mass people and it makes me feel this awful pit in my stomach.
Ark Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 Actually, I know a handful of Orders currently going through an "intervention" of sorts. This Order's is just particularly public, for some reason. There are tons of orders that the vatican investigats. But really, this one gets all the news beucase people somehow see them the maryter.. Which other orders are going through interventions the way the Friars of the Immaculate have been? Interested in knowing.
KnightofChrist Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 Perhaps the LCWR? But to my memory I don't recall their leadership being completely replaced, any of their convents closed, nor their preferred form of the Mass being forbidden to them etc...
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