Katie Bell Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 Good morning:) just a quick question, where can i buy a carmine nuns habit. I would like it to be like the read deal. with all the layers. Basically if they dont have it i dont want it. can any one point me where to go. Katie
beatitude Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 Nuns' habits vary from order to order and it would be difficult if not impossible to buy a 'real' one online. This is because each habit is usually sewn for the specific sister who needs it - there is no one warehouse where every nun goes for a readymade habit. Why would you want one anyway? Personally I feel a bit uneasy with the use of the habit as a costume.
Katie Bell Posted May 19, 2015 Author Posted May 19, 2015 Hey:) well thats a good question. i am discerning at this present time, leaning towards carmine. How ever i am just a slight but autistic. This makes me obsessive, my spiritual adviser has suggested i just get out my system. So my mum has agreed to just get me a habit etc to experience it.
NadaTeTurbe Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 An habit is a sacred things. It is not a game, or a costume. it is given in particular cisconstances, for particular reasons. You can't just have an habit to experience it.
beatitude Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 I am autistic myself (not just slightly, diagnosed with autism) and I don't think that this is a good way to deal with the obsessive thinking. Wearing a habit won't help you to experience what it's like to be a Carmelite. The best way to gain an understanding would be to form a relationship with a local Carmel, visit frequently with the prioress, and do a live-in to see whether this is truly the life for you or if you are mistaking a fascination with their way of life for a vocation. Dressing in a habit won't help you to know one way or the other, and it takes meaning away from the habit - nuns have prayers that they say as they put on each piece and it becomes an important symbol for them, which it wouldn't be for someone who was just focusing on the 'look' of the habit and how it feels to wear it.
Alberto Guimaraes Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 Peace and Good! Search here: http://www.gloryandpraisevestments.com/habitscatalog_final.htm http://www.monksandnunshabits.com Jesus, Mary and Francis be with you and bless you! Br. Alberto Guimaraes OFS Braga - Portugal
Alberto Guimaraes Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 Peace and Good! Monastic footwear: http://www.barroux.org/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=2&Itemid=189 http://www.monastica-art-et-artisanat.com/CT-265-Sandales-de-Jerusalem.aspx#CT-254-Moniale-(femme)-naturel http://www.artisanatmonastique.com/sandales-scholastiques-modele-femme-tailles-36-a-41.htm http://jerusalem.cef.fr/de-jerusalem/artisanat-et-magasins/les-sandales-de-jerusalem But if possible stay barefoot! Jesus, Mary and Francis be with you, keep you and bless you! Br. Alberto Guimaraes OFS Braga - Portugal
beatitude Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 Br Alberto, are you actually a Catholic religious? I notice you don't have the religious tag, and I don't think that telling a young woman (from the sounds of it, a very young woman) to stay barefoot and giving her links to costume sites is something that a brother would do...
marigold Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 Br Alberto, are you actually a Catholic religious? I notice you don't have the religious tag, and I don't think that telling a young woman (from the sounds of it, a very young woman) to stay barefoot and giving her links to costume sites is something that a brother would do... Yes, it's making me uneasy as well.
vee Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 Hey:) well thats a good question. i am discerning at this present time, leaning towards carmine. How ever i am just a slight but autistic. This makes me obsessive, my spiritual adviser has suggested i just get out my system. So my mum has agreed to just get me a habit etc to experience it. Do you think St Therese or St Teresa of the Andes would have asked their parents to spend over $400 on something? They were more focused on preparing and having a heart pleasing to Jesus, making many sacrifices for love of Him, helping their parents and family with chores everyday without complaint and without being asked and so forth. Do all that for love of Jesus not expecting anything in return except you are making Jesus happy, THAT will make you more of a Carmelite than anything.
Alberto Guimaraes Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 Yes, it's making me uneasy as well. Do you think St Therese or St Teresa of the Andes would have asked their parents to spend over $400 on something? They were more focused on preparing and having a heart pleasing to Jesus, making many sacrifices for love of Him, helping their parents and family with chores everyday without complaint and without being asked and so forth. Do all that for love of Jesus not expecting anything in return except you are making Jesus happy, THAT will make you more of a Carmelite than anything. Peace and Good! I replied to a Katie Bell' s question, and she thanks my reply. I gave her the websites of two places from where she' ll can to buy her habit without resorting to any religious community. As for footwear (sandals) I indicated some websites of religious communities that make it handmade.I am a Catholic religious (secular Franciscan), and I used the habit of the Tertiary Order of Penance while our superiors decided not suppress its use.Even without the habit, I follow walking barefoot whenever possible, according to the special vow I made the moment to enter the SFO, and when I can not being so I put on sandals.If the use of the habit helps Katie to feel more earnest in their religious vocation and iif she has money possibilities to acquire a habit, purchase it.They wonder if I advise the barefoot walk? I do so not only in my capacity as a religious and health professional but because the benefits of barefooting outweigh any drawbacks.Visit http://www.barefooters.org Jesus, Mary and Francis be with you, keep you and bless you! Br. Alberto Guimaraes OFS Braga - Portugal
beatitude Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 There may be a language barrier here - 'a religious' refers to a person living a vowed life of poverty, chastity, and obedience in a monastery or convent. Secular Franciscans, Carmelites, Dominicans, etc. are not religious in that sense. They don't wear anything like the habit we would associate with nuns and monks. A quick check reveals that the current secular Franciscan garb is either a small scapular (to be worn under the clothes) or a Tau cross. A religious habit of the sort that enclosed Carmelite nuns wear isn't part of a secular vocation, and I think there are good reasons for that. You can't get a habit without going to a religious community, because being in community is what gives the habit its meaning. The most these sites can offer are clothes that look habit-like, and what's the point? Ordering a habit from websites that look as though they specialise in medieval pageant wear and buying extremely expensive 'monastic' sandals will not strengthen anybody's vocation, because a true vocation is about more than these externals. I would worry that it might have the reverse effect: vocation directors are perhaps more likely to be cautious of someone who is prepared to spend a lot of money to essentially play dress-up before they enter, especially if that person has a tendency to get very obsessed with such things, as Katie says she has.
Sister Leticia Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 Hey:) well thats a good question. i am discerning at this present time, leaning towards carmine. How ever i am just a slight but autistic. This makes me obsessive, my spiritual adviser has suggested i just get out my system. So my mum has agreed to just get me a habit etc to experience it. Did your spiritual director suggest that the best way to get Carmel out of your system was by dressing up in a fake habit? (and yes, it would be fake, because as the others have said, authentic habits are made in the monastery for specific sisters) If not, what suggestions did your SD make? And I will add, though others have already said this, that my experience is that there is much much more to being a religious than just what you wear or don't wear. And that's what any discerner should be focusing on. Btw, Beatitude, you asked Alberto why he doesn't have a religious tag - well, neither do I! I assume I don't have one/can't get one because I'm new, and first I need to earn my stripes, but tag or not, I am a Catholic religious!
beatitude Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 Btw, Beatitude, you asked Alberto why he doesn't have a religious tag - well, neither do I! I assume I don't have one/can't get one because I'm new, and first I need to earn my stripes, but tag or not, I am a Catholic religious! Sister, to get that tag you need to send a private message to a site admin (dUSt or the Vocation Station moderator) with some proof that you are who you say you are - your full name, your community, etc. In the past we did have a couple of users who posed as nuns and turned out not to be, so the tag system is a way to guarantee that discerners are listening to someone who really is in religious life. I was a bit concerned to think that a friar would be advising someone to buy a habit from a costume website as I didn't want younger discerners to get the idea that this is something recommended, but Alberto has now made it clear that he's a lay Franciscan.
SNJM Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 This was discussed before. There are many people who do wear a habit. The only rules are: You cannot dress as a priest. You cannot dress as a Sister or Nun from a well known recognizable incorporated order (like the Missionaries of Charity) and ask for money or "beg" for charity. You cannot imposter a Religious for those purposes. Many Oblates have been given permission to wear the habit (St. Scholastic's had one for many years who did) and some take private vows. Some want to live as a hermit in a habit and are not affiliated with any order. Some live in community (like the Beguines) and prefer a habit. Look at how often we see Catherine of Siena depicted in a habit when she was in fact a third order Dominican. Before you tell me that the was the dress of the day, remember that is the same excuse so called liberal nuns believe "the habit" is not necessary. We cannot judge why one would feel this pull or call, but it is obviously personal. If the above rules are not violated it is both canonically and civically fine. I spiritually direct two clients who wear a habit; neither one is in an order and do not claim to be. They are not "fake nuns" but women who see this clothing as part of their lifestyle and total dedication to God. They have made private vows to a Bishop and they are not suitable for religious life; in one case illness, another family issues. The habit gives them great solace and happiness. The Bishops, naturally, do not understand it fully but not finding any canonical reason to refuse, blessed each garment. I hope this information helps shed some light and reminds us all in charity that we truly don't know what another experiences, aches for or is soothed by. And finally, as we all know, the habit does not make the nun or brother!
NadaTeTurbe Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 The person you are speaking about have made religious vow. Katie not. Btw, by speaking like you are, you are denying the sacredness of an habit. An habit is not chosen by the person, it is given to him/her. You take an habit by obedience, not because of your own will. Second, an habit should be wear by someone who have make at least some kind of vow. An habit should also be blessed. Katie will no wear an habit. Katie will play dress-up, desecrating the sacredness of the habit, reinforcing the idea that an habit is just a clothes. Also, people will think she is a sister. It's a lie, and lying is a sin.
beatitude Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 This was discussed before. There are many people who do wear a habit. The only rules are: You cannot dress as a priest. You cannot dress as a Sister or Nun from a well known recognizable incorporated order (like the Missionaries of Charity) and ask for money or "beg" for charity. You cannot imposter a Religious for those purposes. Many Oblates have been given permission to wear the habit (St. Scholastic's had one for many years who did) and some take private vows. Some want to live as a hermit in a habit and are not affiliated with any order. Some live in community (like the Beguines) and prefer a habit. Look at how often we see Catherine of Siena depicted in a habit when she was in fact a third order Dominican. Before you tell me that the was the dress of the day, remember that is the same excuse so called liberal nuns believe "the habit" is not necessary. We cannot judge why one would feel this pull or call, but it is obviously personal. If the above rules are not violated it is both canonically and civically fine. I spiritually direct two clients who wear a habit; neither one is in an order and do not claim to be. They are not "fake nuns" but women who see this clothing as part of their lifestyle and total dedication to God. They have made private vows to a Bishop and they are not suitable for religious life; in one case illness, another family issues. The habit gives them great solace and happiness. The Bishops, naturally, do not understand it fully but not finding any canonical reason to refuse, blessed each garment. I hope this information helps shed some light and reminds us all in charity that we truly don't know what another experiences, aches for or is soothed by. And finally, as we all know, the habit does not make the nun or brother! The OP has said that she wants a Carmelite habit because she has an obsession with Carmelites. She isn't becoming a hermit or making private vows with the support of her bishop. These things can't compared. The women you describe are wearing habits - blessed garments - with ecclesial support and as a part of their vocation. They aren't dressing up as a nun to see what it would feel like to be a nun. You are right that the habit doesn't make the sister, and this is why it doesn't make sense to buy an expensive costume to try and experience what it's like to be a sister. Habits for Third Order seculars began to be phased out by the Church in the 1500s. St Catherine of Siena lived two hundred years before that happened, but if she had been alive then, I think she would have been obedient to the directives of her Church. Katie isn't living in fourteenth-century Italy and unlike St Catherine she hasn't made vows, so again their two situations can't really be compared. You mention the importance of being charitable but then describe nuns who don't wear a habit as "so-called liberal nuns" who make excuses for their dress. This implies that either they're not really nuns or they're failing in their duty as nuns, even though you have said yourself that it's not the habit that makes the sister. I don't think anyone here would judge Katie unkindly for wanting to wear a habit; people have just pointed out that it's not a helpful way to gain insight into religious life. Receiving the habit as a nun is also a special event and it's something well worth waiting for if that's your call.
beatitude Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 Katie will no wear an habit. Katie will play dress-up, desecrating the sacredness of the habit, reinforcing the idea that an habit is just a clothes. Also, people will think she is a sister. It's a lie, and lying is a sin. In fairness, what Katie has written implies that she's still a teenager. She says that her mum is going to get her the habit. She has also mentioned that she has special needs. I don't think anyone will mistake her for a nun and I doubt that her wearing an imitation habit will hurt anyone. It's not sinful for her to be curious. But it won't give her the insight she wants either, and it seems like a lot of trouble and expense to go to just to fulfill an obsession, especially as some vocation directors may feel apprehensive about the idea.
NadaTeTurbe Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 My understanding what that she wanted to wear it outside, and I think it would be lying. Wearing it inside, to get out of an obsession, is not sinfull, even if it is not good.
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