Number of hours of sleep in contemplative community

[NadaTeTurbe]

Recently, I have come across contemplative communities (or community ? english plural is a mystery) who listed, in their horarium, only 5h30/6h of sleep (one listed 6h, but a friend who is entering here told me it was more 5h30 because sisters always had work to finish at the end of the day.). I don't know how many hours of sleep an adult need, but I thought it was 7/8 hours, to be efficient in his day. So, my little stupid question of the day : is there any recommendation on this ? Generally, for people who have been in religious life, I wonder how do you adapt from "I go to sleep/wake up when I want" to follow an horarium, and how it could affect you. I'm really curious about it, because I can't work properly if I don't get my 8 hours of sleep. 

Edited June 25, 2015 by NadaTeTurbe

[MarysLittleFlower]

Recently, I have come across contemplative communities (or community ? english plural is a mystery) who listed, in their horarium, only 5h30/6h of sleep (one listed 6h, but a friend who is entering here told me it was more 5h30 because sisters always had work to finish at the end of the day.). I don't know how many hours of sleep an adult need, but I thought it was 7/8 hours, to be efficient in his day. So, my little stupid question of the day : is there any recommendation on this ? Generally, for people who have been in religious life, I wonder how do you adapt from "I go to sleep/wake up when I want" to follow an horarium, and how it could affect you. I'm really curious about it, because I can't work properly if I don't get my 8 hours of sleep. 

im not sure how much they sleep but to adjust you could talk to a spiritual director about following a Rule of life in the world that would include a schedule for sleep where you don't get up when you want. It could be waking up at 5 or 5 30 or 6 30 for example. Eventually the body does get used to it and it also depends on when you go to sleep if you go to sleep early you actually rest better even if you sleep less, than if you sleep at 12 and get up at noon... You'd actually be more tired though you slept more. There's some reason for that but I'm not sure... There's an optimal time to sleep and less optimal

[truthfinder]

Some communities, especially contemplative ones, will have a built in nap time (that they don't publish on their horarium).  There have been some communities (new and old) that have tried to push the boundaries with sleep, but I believe there is a regulation somewhere that they do need to have a specific amount of sleep.  

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

The hours for sleep are one of (the many) reasons I couldn't join a cloistered contemplative Community. I have a sleep disorder (been through the sleep tests etc) that is only partially controlled by good sleep habits and medication. I need more than a minimum of 8 hours--more like 10. I suspect this would be considered a canonical impediment.

I suspect the sleep issue is hardest for young entrants, because medically, young women need more sleep than young men, or other adults. But, over time, the sleep habits of Religious life become ingrained. I live across the street from a convent of retired Religious Sisters, and despite the fact that in theory they could relax their schedule a bit, they still get up at 5:30 every morning and go to bed at the same time as when they were actively teaching. My "buddy" who is about 86 (I'm never sure, because they celebrate Jubilees at the convent, not birthdays or ages) complains about the fact that they want her to take a nap every day, and she doesn't want to. But the habit of obedience seems to become ingrained, as well, so I suspect she does it (or at least goes to her cell).

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

In my monastery you could get technically get almost 8 hours of sleep if you put your light out 1/2r. after Compline but most Sisters get about 7-7.5 hours of sleep on the hours they don't have night adoration. We have the option of a siesta in the afternoon as well.

Fatigue is probably one of the biggest penances of the life because you're not free to sleep in on weekends and even on Sunday we get only 15 minutes extra sleep! But one does adjust. Some adjust faster than others. And let's face it, mom's and dad's of growing families don't get those ideal 8 hours, either.

I have learned I can get by with about 6.5 hours of sleep. I don't think I'd be able to sleep 8 hours! I'm just too used to getting up early for prayer, etc.

[TheresaThoma]

I noticed on my visits to the convent that I typically slept "deeper" than normal. I was getting less sleep than normal but I still felt rested. By the end of the day I was definitely ready for bed though!

[Benedictus]

Recently, I have come across contemplative communities (or community ? english plural is a mystery) who listed, in their horarium, only 5h30/6h of sleep (one listed 6h, but a friend who is entering here told me it was more 5h30 because sisters always had work to finish at the end of the day.). I don't know how many hours of sleep an adult need, but I thought it was 7/8 hours, to be efficient in his day. So, my little stupid question of the day : is there any recommendation on this ? Generally, for people who have been in religious life, I wonder how do you adapt from "I go to sleep/wake up when I want" to follow an horarium, and how it could affect you. I'm really curious about it, because I can't work properly if I don't get my 8 hours of sleep. 

Each community will have their own timetable but most will adjust it to ensure the community has adequate sleep. I think, so I've read, one of the only orders to still insist on broken sleep are the Carthusians, as they sleep in three or four hour slots due to night prayers.

When I stayed in various monasteries they'd have 8 or 9 hour gaps between Compline and Morning Prayers (Vigils or Matins). Community members could go to sleep straight after Compline, unless they had something to do. Some communities ensure a certain amount of sleep by having a 'lights out' rule. But in others members may do paperwork, chores, pray or do devotions, study for exams etc for as long as they like (as long as they don't make noise and will get up the next day!). Most contemplatives also have a time during the day for power naps. This is actually encouraged as mental prayer, the routine and physical work, especially in early formation, can be exhausting.
I've found though that living an apostolic life can still be a struggle to get sleep if you aren't careful. I find I have a list of things I need to do and this sometimes means going to sleep late and rising early. I find this mirrors daily life for most people who have family and work (often with long commutes) so I made myself get used to it. The body does get used to routine and eventually adjusts somewhat to new needs. The religious sister or brother overseeing formation will also discuss such matters and they can adjust work/chores if you are so overrun that you can't get enough sleep within the set schedule.

p.s my tip would be to avoid the temptation to take lots of coffee in formation too. A few religious told me it's tempting to use this to perk up, and some religious make it a routine, but it can impact on your moods and concentration. I gave it a miss and go for orange juice and water instead

Edited June 26, 2015 by Benedictus

[Yaatee]

Getting adequate sleep is very important, we are told by reputable medical sources.  People's needs vary. I have gone with one hour less sleep per night for 42 years, as my husband requires less than I do.  We lost a lot of sleep when our children were small, and both of us worked full-time, me for most of it.  I don't recommend it. It impairs your mood, your concentration, and your eating. This is a recent discovery. People deprived of sleep tend to be overweight or obese. Getting adequate sleep actually helps you both control your weight and lose weight, if desired.

One should avoid coffee if it affects your mood adversely, keeps you awake at night, etc. Otherwise it's OK.  Coffee actually increases concentration and mental abilities.  for years researchers have tried to come up with bad side effects because of coffee (and chocolate!) and they have discovered quite the opposite!

I tend to regard rising at night with consequent loss of sleep, both in quality and amount, as a penance, but I think that it is wrong-headed, frankly, because of potentially severe side effects.  Sleep deprivation is the ultimate torture.  Of course, people in those communities probably require less sleep and have learned to tolerate it.

Iggy, I would discuss this issue frankly with directors in houses you are seriously interested in before giving up on religious life.  Don't assume anything.

[vee]

 I wonder how do you adapt from "I go to sleep/wake up when I want" to follow an horarium, and how it could affect you. I'm really curious about it, because I can't work properly if I don't get my 8 hours of sleep. 

i dont get to do that part in bold much anyway and Im just a normal person working a full time job!  Depending on the schedule I may have to get up at 5;30am for work and you get used to it.  When I visited a convent that had a wake up time of 5:30am as well i often found myself waking up around 5 feeling very refreshed and rested.  i was probably asleep by 11pm at the latest.  I found it easier to get up in general!  In fact I found their lifestyle a heck of a lot more balanced than us lay people working and living in secular life have.    if God calls someone to a particular lifestyle though he definitely gives them the graces to live it.  As St Therese says "all is grace."

[BarbTherese]

   if God calls someone to a particular lifestyle though he definitely gives them the graces to live it. As St Therese says "all is grace."

Well said indeed and Amen to that, vee!

 

 

 

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

Getting adequate sleep is very important, we are told by reputable medical sources.  People's needs vary. I have gone with one hour less sleep per night for 42 years, as my husband requires less than I do.  We lost a lot of sleep when our children were small, and both of us worked full-time, me for most of it.  I don't recommend it. It impairs your mood, your concentration, and your eating. This is a recent discovery. People deprived of sleep tend to be overweight or obese. Getting adequate sleep actually helps you both control your weight and lose weight, if desired.

One should avoid coffee if it affects your mood adversely, keeps you awake at night, etc. Otherwise it's OK.  Coffee actually increases concentration and mental abilities.  for years researchers have tried to come up with bad side effects because of coffee (and chocolate!) and they have discovered quite the opposite!

I tend to regard rising at night with consequent loss of sleep, both in quality and amount, as a penance, but I think that it is wrong-headed, frankly, because of potentially severe side effects.  Sleep deprivation is the ultimate torture.  Of course, people in those communities probably require less sleep and have learned to tolerate it.

Iggy, I would discuss this issue frankly with directors in houses you are seriously interested in before giving up on religious life.  Don't assume anything.

Not to worry, Yaatee. I am not discerning Religious Life for all kinds of reasons, the main one of which is that I am not called to be a Religious. Marriage was very clearly my vocation, but I blew it by marrying the wrong guy. I've been divorced (his decision, I was not given an option) for a long time now, and since my divorce, I have not met anyone to whom I have even come close to marrying. Since I am now "of a certain age" with multiple chronic diseases, my chances of remarrying are virtually nil. If I count the time I was single before I got married and the time after my divorce, I have spent roughly 3/4 of my life as a single person, despite my vocation to marriage. Life often turns out very differently than what we expected (or hoped for). 

So why do I hang around VS? I'm a complex person. 

[Yaatee]

Well, I hang out here too and Ive been married for 42 years.  Go figure.

Sorry about the chronic diseases. I have them now, too, but I think that I'm a lot older than you. 

It is certainly possible to miss one's vocation. Many do, unfortunately.

[BarbTherese]

Having problems with links.  If the above doesn't work go to Open Mic "Miss One's Vocation"

Edited June 26, 2015 by BarbaraTherese

[Antigonos]

 

So why do I hang around VS? I'm a complex person. 

You're not the only one. 

[NadaTeTurbe]

Thank you for your answer, very interesting. 

When I don't have school, I sleep according to the sun. There's no shutter and no curtain at my windows. I tend to fall asleep around midnight or 1, because my medication begin to work here so I'm not in pain, but then I get up when the sun wake me up. I don't know if it is scientifically proven, but sleeping according to the sun is very good, at least for me. And of course, siesta. My second religion after catholic is the siesta. Because of my disability, I need to sleep a lot, or I am a mess and my body just say "no. Nada, you SLEEP". 

[marigold]

My second religion after catholic is the siesta.

Hahaha!

[vee]

A little siesta story. 

One day during my visit I settled down intending to have a 30 min siesta.  TWO HOURS LATER I woke up to a nun knocking at my door because i was late for vespers!  

[Strictlyinkblot]

A little siesta story. 

One day during my visit I settled down intending to have a 30 min siesta.  TWO HOURS LATER I woke up to a nun knocking at my door because i was late for vespers!  

I've done that twice

[TheresaThoma]

One thing I did learn is that you have to trust in the schedule. If the Sisters suggest you take a nap or just go and rest for a bit. Do so! (Though it may be advisable to set an alarm). 

I think part of the reason that you may need less sleep in general is that there is a rhythm to the day. It is not always going full tilt. Even if it doesn't mean a nap there are times for rest. For example lunch and recreation. I don't know of many people who actually sit down and have a full lunch in a normal life. I know personally if I had only a 30 minute lunch I was rushing trying to heat up food, eat it and be back to the work on time. If I had an hour lunch break I was using that time to take care of errands which oddly meant even less time for eating. It really has only been on retreats and convent visits that I really take time to sit down and eat.

[MarysLittleFlower]

i dont get to do that part in bold much anyway and Im just a normal person working a full time job!  Depending on the schedule I may have to get up at 5;30am for work and you get used to it.  When I visited a convent that had a wake up time of 5:30am as well i often found myself waking up around 5 feeling very refreshed and rested.  i was probably asleep by 11pm at the latest.  I found it easier to get up in general!  In fact I found their lifestyle a heck of a lot more balanced than us lay people working and living in secular life have.    if God calls someone to a particular lifestyle though he definitely gives them the graces to live it.  As St Therese says "all is grace."

i think the lifestyle in a convent is much more balanced too and less sensory overload with media etc. Basically none. As a lay person I still get up early but my day can get pretty hectic.