vee Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 In my area there is once again a farewell of a Sister, or small group of Sisters, that were once part of large Communities. Fifty years ago this Sister I think of was one of many teachers at a flourishing school but the building is gone now, demolished to make way for new construction. The remaining Sisters are few and those that can return to the mother house for the remainder of their days. When I see that kind of thing happen and then look at Communities that are flourishing I cant help but wonder what happened, whats going on? The answer that makes sense to me is from John chapter 15 where Jesus says I am the vine and you are the branches... http://www.usccb.org/bible/john/15 Whatever has happened is between them and the Vine Grower. must end it there time for sushi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I agree. All is speculation. What ends communities is between them and God... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponsa-Christi Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 This small but growing community is an offshoot of the original Los Angles IHM Sisters: http://sistersihmofwichita.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthfinder Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 This small but growing community is an offshoot of the original Los Angles IHM Sisters: http://sistersihmofwichita.org/ Thanks for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nunsuch Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 MLF, once more--on what basis do you say that it is the more traditional communities that are getting most of the vocations? He data say that about half are going into more traditional communities and half into others. Since there are far fewer "more traditional" communities, the numbers may be more concentrated (although some more traditional communities are not getting any vocations). There is a book based on serious scholarship in religious sociology, two of whose authors are sisters, which has researched this very rigorously and is based on more than impressions. You may find it of interest: http://www.amazon.com/New-Generations-Catholic-Sisters-Challenge/dp/0199316848/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) Duplicate Edited July 4, 2015 by Maggyie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaatee Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 This small but growing community is an offshoot of the original Los Angles IHM Sisters: http://sistersihmofwichita.org/ True, it is growing. It now has 25 members (2015 Guide) and prob a few novices--in 40 years next year. It is a habited teaching community in a very conservative state. Teaching is the most popular apostolate in active orders, is and always was, until the preferential option of the poor came into being as a response to the original constitutions of many communities, which were written by saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 The reality is a lot more complicated than "the mean old Cardinal surpressing the nice nuns." This community wound up with a lot of problems, not least of which was sex abuse. These women were not angels. Probably the stress of the time revealed the problems rather than caused them. Nevertheless the point is, when a very large community utterly implodes like this it's mostly down to self destruction. An outside force, even a prince of the church, simply doesn't have that much power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Nunsuch, it is true that the large majority of new vocations are entering more traditional orders (by which I do NOT mean orders that celebrate the Traditional Latin Mass, but simply habited orders that live in community). The most recent CARA report on vocations to RL had that as one of their findings. Id link to it but I'm on my cell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nunsuch Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Those data are refuted by the Johnson, et al., study. I think the factor may be the way that "traditional" is being defined (and I do not mean Traditionalist, nor do Johnson, et al.). Gabriella, have you read the Johnson, et al., book? If so, I would be interested to know what you think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaatee Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 The mean old Cardinal suppressing the nice nuns is one of those hoary old stories. The reality is much more complicated than that. This order became a community with a lot of problems, not least with sex abuse. Maybe the stresses of that time period revealed the problems, rather than caused them. Nevertheless this was at least as much a case of self destruction as it was destruction from outsiders. Well, what is a fact is that once the IHM's in CA were thriving and now they are gone. Without the Cardinal, they might not have been gone. The Benedictines, Dominicans and Franciscans, many in street clothes and doing many good works, are still very much with us. One thing happened after the papal commission was announced. The laity rose up in arms to defend their beloved sisters, the ones that, in many cases, had saved them from drugs and jail. The other is something that I noticed in reviewing their websites, newsletters, annual reports, etc. That the acknowledgements for donations went on for pages and pages. The numerous galas, golf tournaments, balls, etc. all raised huge amounts of money for the sisters' aging building maintenance and building of new apartments for the aged, and construction of their own facilities for their aged. Time and time again multimillion dollar goals were met for these ambitious projects. There is a tremendous amount of support out there for these communities. I think that this support, plus the change in pontificate, had a great deal with the new detente between these communities (LCWR, for the most part) and the Vatican. It was striking that Pope Francis himself met with these nuns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 You don't need to say sorry and my frustration is a valid feeling that I'm choosing to acknowledge out loud in the hope that it might add to your perspective of things. I didn't say it to make you feel bad but to let you know how you might be perceived and how others might feel in response to that. I have to be honest in saying that I don't know of any religious or communities that are the way you say they are... I haven't met them but you seem to think they exist so I guess I just don't understand where your perspective on religious life is coming from. I can honestly say that I have never met a sister who didn't care about Jesus, had a job that was just a job, and didn't care about her spiritual life. (How can you tell these deeply personal things just by looking at someone or meeting them casually anyway?) Where have you met, experienced, or interacted with one of these religious women? I have a job that is a ministry. When you have a ministry in a professional field you have to see it as both a ministry and a profession. A teacher has to teach. A nurse has to be a nurse. And some sisters are also social workers and that is their ministry. Since when did it become wrong to do these things with zeal for the kingdom? They need to be competent and focused on their work as part of the Gospel and religious life... Not because they don't care about God. i never said I met someone like that... I was talking hypothetically / theoretically. Also I never said its wrong to do active work... Only without an interior life. I wasn't talking about anyone I met. In fact the book I read Soul of the Apostolate implies that anyone can slide into this even people who really love God. Maybe the book could clarify... It's about how without a strong interior life its easy to become all about work and lose concentration. I wasn't talking about a particular community but a danger that exists. It exists for me as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 MLF, once more--on what basis do you say that it is the more traditional communities that are getting most of the vocations? He data say that about half are going into more traditional communities and half into others. Since there are far fewer "more traditional" communities, the numbers may be more concentrated (although some more traditional communities are not getting any vocations). There is a book based on serious scholarship in religious sociology, two of whose authors are sisters, which has researched this very rigorously and is based on more than impressions. You may find it of interest: http://www.amazon.com/New-Generations-Catholic-Sisters-Challenge/dp/0199316848/ im just looking at where young women tend to join and the orders that are really growing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Those data are refuted by the Johnson, et al., study. I think the factor may be the way that "traditional" is being defined (and I do not mean Traditionalist, nor do Johnson, et al.). Gabriella, have you read the Johnson, et al., book? If so, I would be interested to know what you think of it. No, I haven't read that. Could you provide a full citation? How exactly did they go about refuting a CARA report? CARA reports are pretty reliable (methodologically speaking), so I'm skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 @Sister Marie and @MarysLittleFlower: I think y'all are talking past each other, and don't actually disagree. Sister Marie, you're making more sophisticated distinctions than MLF's language does, but I think she's referring not to communities involved in social justice work or out of habit in general, but to the communities of women we so often hear about in the media that support artificial contraception and "women's rights" like abortion. She's talking about the lunatic fringe of women's "religious life", the kind that isn't even properly Catholic anymore, the kind with feminist mission statements and Georgia O'Keefe-style artwork on their homepages. Obviously you're talking about women who are still faithful to the Church—which is a different group of women altogether! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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