Obligation

[ErinMarie]

Hi,

At the risk of sounding terribly whiny, I wanted to ask; does anyone else struggle in discernment with feeling obligated to get the answer to wrap itself up nice and neat like a Christmas present with no loose ends and no hurt feelings (from work, family, other communities, etc)?  I mean, I know it won't, but does anyone else struggle with feeling like you're not doing it right when it doesn't?

P.S. Upon proofreading, I think my main problem here is that I'm feeling obligated...as if it were something that I was orchestrating all by myself.  How silly of me 

[Sponsa-Christi]

I'm not sure this is what you were asking about, but I know I often caution women discerners not to discern consecrated virginity out of a desire to be able to put oneself into a neat canonical box. (I wrote about that a bit here: http://www.leonieslonging.org/the-vocation-to-consecrated-virginity/ )

I think there is a temptation for serious young Catholics to see one's state in life as something to be sorted, settled, and clearly labeled before age thirty---which can lead to a lot of spiritual pain and confusion when life doesn't resolve our questions as neatly as we would have hoped. For me, one thing that is helpful is to keep in mind that God really does love and relate to us as unique individuals, and not as categories on a checklist. 

[ErinMarie]

Yes, it is kind of wanting a definite niche to be in, but also about thinking about how many people are going to be disappointed/angry/inconvenienced if it turns out that I am called to religious life and sometimes I am tempted to give up discerning completely (see previous postings)

So I am truly trying to remember that ultimately I am not here to make anyone else happy or their lives more convenient.  I am here for God and to do His Will.

Thank you for the link; the article was helpful and the website in general was thought-provoking.

 

[Gabriela]

I do not struggle with this. In fact, I struggle with the opposite. I sometimes wonder if things are so neat and clean and easy, am I really being "challenged" enough to be growing? If I'm really doing His will, why aren't I suffering like He did? Etc.

That being said, I understand what Sponsa is talking about: the "canonical box". Especially by age 30. It's hard to "not fit anywhere" in the Catholic Church, especially when She provides so many options. And more especially with all these people running around telling you "singlehood" isn't a "vocation". But if God doesn't speak up and tell you to do something else... well, what the #@$% are you supposed to do?

[julianneoflongbeach]

The tiny bit of advice I could give you is just to ask God to ask you to do what He wants from you instead of trying to figure it out on your own. Then give it some time before you go back to it. In my opinion there is no point trying to find an answer to a question that hasn't been asked yet.

... But to answer your original question... No. At the end of the day my vocation was more out less presented to me wrapped up all pretty with a neat little bow. Sorry

[BarbTherese]

I'm not sure this is what you were asking about, but I know I often caution women discerners not to discern consecrated virginity out of a desire to be able to put oneself into a neat canonical box. (I wrote about that a bit here: http://www.leonieslonging.org/the-vocation-to-consecrated-virginity/ )

I think there is a temptation for serious young Catholics to see one's state in life as something to be sorted, settled, and clearly labeled before age thirty---which can lead to a lot of spiritual pain and confusion when life doesn't resolve our questions as neatly as we would have hoped. For me, one thing that is helpful is to keep in mind that God really does love and relate to us as unique individuals, and not as categories on a checklist. 

Re Leonie's Longing and link above - I came up with Message 404 Page not Found?

[vee]

Re Leonie's Longing and link above - I came up with Message 404 Page not Found?

same here

[truthfinder]

Re Leonie's Longing and link above - I came up with Message 404 Page not Found?

Here try this: http://www.leonieslonging.org/the-vocation-to-consecrated-virginity/

[BarbTherese]

Here try this: http://www.leonieslonging.org/the-vocation-to-consecrated-virginity/

Works fine - thank you

[BarbTherese]

I found the essay posted by SponsaChristi and Truthfinder worth reading.

[SilverSeminarian]

Hi,

At the risk of sounding terribly whiny, I wanted to ask; does anyone else struggle in discernment with feeling obligated to get the answer to wrap itself up nice and neat like a Christmas present with no loose ends and no hurt feelings (from work, family, other communities, etc)?  I mean, I know it won't, but does anyone else struggle with feeling like you're not doing it right when it doesn't?

P.S. Upon proofreading, I think my main problem here is that I'm feeling obligated...as if it were something that I was orchestrating all by myself.  How silly of me 

Discernment is such a tough thing to do, mainly because you don't know what to do (at least when I first started, I didn't). There will never be a definitive answer, no giant yes or no sign, no nothing. You just have to put your trust in God and allow him to lead you to where he wants you. And that's freaking hard. Talk about a leap of faith.. This is a freaking skydive with no parachute! It's just you falling endlessly until God finally catches you.

I've come to find that many people (friends peers from my public high school, coworkers, NOT family or friends) responded one of two ways to me entering seminary: 1. Oh neat! What's that? 2. Oh, so you like little boys.

In the end, like you said, it's about serving God in whatever capacity you can. Be it religious life, family, mission work, whatever. 

Hope this helps a little! God Bless you, you'll be in my prayers. 

[sr.christinaosf]

Might I add: life is a beautiful journey.  When you look back,you may marvel with gratitude on how God took the little events (of which you saw no point) and used it to guide you.  I know I have had that experience.  

Maybe I should share about my journey.  Until a moment at Eucharistic Adoration after my freshman year of college, I had really no thought of religious life.  After that, I believed I was being called but knew very little about it.  I got information from various communities by filling out a general postcard but it was only over time that I learned and grew in my knowledge of what I was looking for in religious life (not that it was all about what I wanted- I was trying to follow God's call).

So, I guess what I would say is - pray....ask the Holy Spirit to guide you.  Be persistent.  Turn to Our Lady.  She said yes!  She was faithful.  Have you heard of the practice of saying three Hail Marys daily to know and follow your vocation - I'm not sure if that's exactly the wording. Also, don't worry and be all anxious about it.  If you are striving to do what is right and follow your vocation, and are praying for guidance, trust Our Lord to supply it.  

Finally, do you have a pastor or spiritual friend you can go to and talk to about your discernment?  I think that would be really good.  You can post questions all you want for strangers online but nothing compares to a good spiritual guide who you can visit with.  

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

Hi,

At the risk of sounding terribly whiny, I wanted to ask; does anyone else struggle in discernment with feeling obligated to get the answer to wrap itself up nice and neat like a Christmas present with no loose ends and no hurt feelings (from work, family, other communities, etc)?  I mean, I know it won't, but does anyone else struggle with feeling like you're not doing it right when it doesn't?

P.S. Upon proofreading, I think my main problem here is that I'm feeling obligated...as if it were something that I was orchestrating all by myself.  How silly of me 

I think I see what you mean... like when things go wrong somehow and then you begin doubting your whole discernment? been there for sure  actually... still there.

I think it can be that if there are things that appear imperfect (people being upset with you, interior trials, ETC) - that doesn't mean you're not doing it right, but that you have a cross to carry in your discernment which is actually a beautiful thing later down the line when it stops being so upsetting! (cause at the moment it's always upsetting).

I think it was St Gerald Majella who had to run away from home. St Gemma wanted to be a Passionist and it didn't happen in her life, though now she's counted among Passionist Saints. If I remember correctly, Sr Mary of the Holy Trinity (a mystic) tried a whole bunch of convents that didn't work before finding her convent. I think if we look at the lives of the Saints and other holy people there are TONS of examples of things not going perfectly  they still became Saints! It's only God's Will that matters. Not presence of difficulties, lack of difficulties, etc.

Sometimes difficulties happen because God's work is opposed. Sometimes difficulties don't happen cause He doesn't allow them. Sometimes they just happen as trials. In any case, we need abandonment to Divine providence such trials can teach this I think. At least that has been my thinking about my discernment.

Edited July 11, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[marigold]

I do not struggle with this. In fact, I struggle with the opposite. I sometimes wonder if things are so neat and clean and easy, am I really being "challenged" enough to be growing? If I'm really doing His will, why aren't I suffering like He did? Etc.

That being said, I understand what Sponsa is talking about: the "canonical box". Especially by age 30. It's hard to "not fit anywhere" in the Catholic Church, especially when She provides so many options. And more especially with all these people running around telling you "singlehood" isn't a "vocation". But if God doesn't speak up and tell you to do something else... well, what the #@$% are you supposed to do?

Pick a path that that leads to salvation and is something that you want to do, and follow it until God shows you otherwise.

[ErinMarie]

Thank you for your advice and just for listening to me.  After some attempts to be objective in looking at my discernment, I am starting to see that things are going better than I thought.  I have contacted a number of communities and have set up visits (or phone conversations that will hopefully lead to visiting) with three that I feel most drawn to and so far nothing has happened to create an obstacle to this. I was so incredibly blessed to be able to pay off my student loans some years ago so my only real impediment is my Catholic 'age' (convert).  All the people that I have told about my discernment process so far have been way more supportive and encouraging than I thought they would be.

So the only thing that I have to complain about is that God has not set up a billboard outside my apartment that says "Erin Marie!  You are called to religious life! Go to (whichever community)!"  I need to keep reminding myself that it's ok not to know everything all at once and ok to let God be in control.

BTW I do have a spiritual director and she has been a big help. I am really glad that there are places like Phatmass though, because it's nice to share with people who understand the process.  There isn't anyone else in my area who is discerning (that I know of).

[Gabriela]

Pick a path that that leads to salvation and is something that you want to do, and follow it until God shows you otherwise.

Well, this is what I think I'm doing. But how do I know what leads to salvation?

Geez, I don't even know for sure what I want to do!

[Yaatee]

Well, this is what I think I'm doing. But how do I know what leads to salvation?

Geez, I don't even know for sure what I want to do!

Gabriela, if it's any consolation, many of young people your age don't know either.  You are from that generation (I think)  which is taking time to focus, discover who they are and what they want to be.  Both my daughters, who I think are somewhat older than you, have had the same problem.  Their solution was to stay in school indefinitely until they found out.  I don't necessarily recommend this; working at various jobs might accomplish the same thing much more cheaply.   Regarding religious life, the best solution I think is to explore it, discern with a VD if your serious, or else simply visit different communities until you know. I think that in something like this, you'll know fairly soon if it's for you.  One thing about the present generation is that they recognize their true feelings about things much more immediately than previous generations extending as far back as mine!

Don't use "thirty" as some sort of deadline.  It may be so for the choosiest of religious communities, but it is not realistic.  People who marry after thirty (as I did) have a far greater likelihood of having their marriages last.  The thirties are not a deadline, they are a decade for maturing (at last!), focusing, finding either your life's partner or your life's work, or both.  All of this begins in your thirties.

[beatitude]

Well, this is what I think I'm doing. But how do I know what leads to salvation?

Geez, I don't even know for sure what I want to do!

Your tagline says 'Society for the Canonization of Thomas Merton', so I presume you know this prayer.

Bl. John Henry Newman also wrote something beautiful and relevant:

"God has created me to do Him some definite service. He has committed some work to me which He has not committed to another. I have my mission. I may never know it in this life, but I shall be told it in the next. I am a link in a chain, a bond of connection between persons. He has not created me for naught. I shall do good; I shall do His work. I shall be an angel of peace, a preacher of truth in my own place, while not intending it if I do but keep His commandments. Therefore, I will trust Him, whatever I am, I can never be thrown away. If I am in sickness, my sickness may serve Him, in perplexity, my perplexity may serve Him. If I am in sorrow, my sorrow may serve Him. He does nothing in vain. He knows what He is about. He may take away my friends. He may throw me among strangers. He may make me feel desolate, make my spirits sink, hide my future from me. Still, He knows what He is about."

Edited July 12, 2015 by beatitude
To throw in Cardinal Newman as well

[MarysLittleFlower]

It might help to consider that though its nice to fit into a "canonical box", our duty is doing God's Will. What is His Will now? To fulfill your duties well where you are, and to put His Will first in your intent. That is how I'd define a path that leads to salvation. Where you are now is where God wants you now  then you just do everything we were taught - prayer, Sacraments, cooperation with grace... Some people follow a Rule as lay people with guidance of their SD. I don't mean a religious Rule but a daily schedule and guidelines for where you are 

I struggle with this too cause I'm almost 30, and have a lot of student loans, so I already wouldn't be able to enter some communities that cut off at 30... And I'd only be able to enter others if by some miracle I can pay off the loans by 35. Its not easy because I don't make much and I have a lot of loans. I'd have to do something in addition to my job. And basically all the communities I've been looking at accept up to 35. So all I can do is try my best and trust God.

Right now I don't fit into any box. I also do a job that I'm not particularly great in and my life is far from being figured out. That's an amesome prayer by Bl John Henry Newman! I'd also really recommend the book Abandonment to Divine Providence from TAN - the bigger one with the letters. Right where we are is where God placed us now. So we need to serve Him there holiness is not - being able to fit in a niche, or really anything except doing His Will with much love. If you intend to do His Will and do your present duties, then I believe you are doing enough now. We can't do His future Will until the future!

Edited July 12, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[MarysLittleFlower]

I know doing God's Will where we are might sound very prosaic... A part of this is surrendering to His Will in that too. For example a woman might dream of being a contemplative Carmelite one day. But currently she's stuck in some little job that she doesn't enjoy, or is even very good at, her life seems to be going nowhere and her ideas of being a nun would be opposed by those around her... Or maybe she is ill...

So she might keep looking for God's Will for until she enters - half expecting in her heart that it would be more fulfilling. Like being a missionary or living some contemplative life in the world or doing a valuable ministry. Maybe God would lead her there. But maybe He wants her in that little job. Maybe He is allowing her to be sick and that's it.

This is where abandonment comes in that your current situation with all its own trials (uncertainty, illness, obstacles, and again uncertainty) - is actually His Will! Sometimes a person can almost expect something glamorous. Or at least beautiful and "neat". But we need all those particular trials to be there. Those exact trials that are now. It might look and feel "messy" and we expect God's Will to be something else...

Yes there are times we recognise His Will by how everything works out. But that's when we find a path usually. The "messy" seeking is also His Will. Even with all the stuff that is inconvenient. Jesus told one of the mystics... (In book Words of Love), that with ruins He can build magnificently. it is not the easiness of the task that defines His Will. Sometimes its easy other times there are crosses. Redemption of the world was achieved on the Cross. If God can save us through suffering then He can use it for anything if we unite it to His. We just have to accept the particular suffering of today ...including the possible "smallness" of the suffering... 

So if all that matters is His Will, and where we are is His Will, all we need to do is do those duties with love. If you need to make some decision or a change and don't know what, put His Will first in your intent, try what you can and see what works out. I don't think it was meant to be complex  just abandonment! Its like a little child being carried by his father. Does he care where he is going or how? he only sees his father. 

Edited July 12, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower