vee Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 But I've also been looking at the Orders that have the Latin Mass and they are so amazing. the Carmelites? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresaThoma Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 the Carmelites? Oh c'mon Vee let the Dominicans have their time to shine. It wasn't too long ago that Carmelites were taking over here. Everything in due season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Oh c'mon Vee let the Dominicans have their time to shine. It wasn't too long ago that Carmelites were taking over here. Everything in due season! They always shine, especially in those white habits! Ever been around a bunch of OPs outside on a bright sunny day? Sunglasses help with the outer brightness but there is nothing to block the radiance of the Holy Spirit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictlyinkblot Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 They always shine, especially in those white habits! Ever been around a bunch of OPs outside on a bright sunny day? Sunglasses help with the outer brightness but there is nothing to block the radiance of the Holy Spirit That's just the way we roll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthfinder Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 However, they are not unique or "resurrecting" Dominican chant into their Office. Most friars and nuns who use elements of chant use the Dominican texts and chant. We just do it and not necessarily make a point of saying it because we take it for granted. Thanks Sr Mary Catharine for the clarification. It's been quite some time since I read what they were doing - I knew it was a bit different, but I've been mistaken on the details. As for Lockport - I guess like it always is here: if we want to know what the real numbers are, we must contact the community or the diocese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sr Mary Catharine OP Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 The dirt shows up a lot, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresaThoma Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 The dirt shows up a lot, too! I actually had a discussion with a Sister about this. A couple of us were commenting on how (we thought) impractical a white habit is, either for sisters or nurses. Until Sister pointed out with a white habit if you get a really bad stain you can throw it in the wash with a bit of bleach and it comes right out. No need for worrying about washing/bleaching out the color on a specific spot. Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicanHeart Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 The Orders I was referring to that have the Latin Mass are the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, the Benedictines of Mary Queen of the Apostles and the Adorers of the Royal Heart of Jesus. And I think they're all beautiful but they just don't have that appeal to me that the Dominicans do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) I'm unsure if this has already been addressed (I've been forced to read too many books to care for unnecessary reading on the side,) and though this may or may not be a welcome post, I'm going to post it anyway: (As an aside, this is not referring to Mass preferences, but to the OP's asking of posters for their perfect ideals in communities.) One thing I've learned in my discernment is to completely remove the idea of a "perfect" community. I wanted a community with a perfect habit, with an adequate vacation to see my family each year, with a beautiful friary/monastery, with the perfect balance of prayer and work, and a million more "perfect" things. I looked through probably fifty communities at least, and I was shocked to see that not one of them fit my ideal. Why? Because God doesn't want us to have a "perfect" community. Our vocation is primarily for our own salvation, and salvation does not come easily. Sanctification comes through bearing things that we hate, and religious life is made with things that people hate, for the specific reason that people hate them. Why? Because these things that we hate (which are objectively good,) when done, purge us of our imperfections. When you desire to enter religious life, do not look for a community that is heaven for you, but one that is the closest thing to purgatory you can possibly find. The entire purpose of religious life is purging us of our imperfections and sanctifying us, and that's what it has always been about. This is of course not meaning that we should all look for bad communities with errant theology and toxic environments. There is a difference between purgation and abuse, and such an environment is detrimental to one's spiritual life rather than conducive. I say all of that not to be annoying, but because when you truly have that proper understanding of the meaning of religious life, you truly understand where you're drawn towards, or if you're drawn towards religious life at all. Too often we fall in love with the romance of religious life rather than its purpose, and I'm just as guilty of that as anyone else. I'm just trying to help people avoid the heartache and frustration of running after something that will be harmful to them. The Orders I was referring to that have the Latin Mass are the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, the Benedictines of Mary Queen of the Apostles and the Adorers of the Royal Heart of Jesus. And I think they're all beautiful but they just don't have that appeal to me that the Dominicans do. Ultimately, you're going to have to decide which one (Dominicans vs. Tridentine Mass) is more important to you. Edited August 30, 2015 by PhuturePriest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egeria Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I actually had a discussion with a Sister about this. A couple of us were commenting on how (we thought) impractical a white habit is, either for sisters or nurses. Until Sister pointed out with a white habit if you get a really bad stain you can throw it in the wash with a bit of bleach and it comes right out. No need for worrying about washing/bleaching out the color on a specific spot. Lol! That sister clearly had a habit without wool in it. If not, it would have come out of the wash beige. Believe me, I speak from experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reminiscere Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Lockport has three other sisters, named here: http://coraweb.sos.la.gov/commercialsearch/CommercialSearchDetails.aspx?CharterID=361375_YYB42. Perhaps they could've professed this year, after this last report was filed and the article that Sr. Mary Catherine linked to. Is Sr. Mary Imelda now prioress, or just president of the corporation? No clue. Again, they are not canonically Nuns of the Order of Preachers. In any case, I would also heartily recommend Buffalo. While not having the traditional Dominican or Roman rites for Mass (as Marbury does fairly often) they do use much Latin in their Mass and Office, and they have retained different aspects of the Dominican Rite, particularly evident in the ceremonies of the Sacred Triduum as well as other traditional Dominican customs, like different processions throughout the year, and St. Catherine de Ricci's Canticle of the Passion during Lent, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicanHeart Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 I'm unsure if this has already been addressed (I've been forced to read too many books to care for unnecessary reading on the side,) and though this may or may not be a welcome post, I'm going to post it anyway: (As an aside, this is not referring to Mass preferences, but to the OP's asking of posters for their perfect ideals in communities.) One thing I've learned in my discernment is to completely remove the idea of a "perfect" community. I wanted a community with a perfect habit, with an adequate vacation to see my family each year, with a beautiful friary/monastery, with the perfect balance of prayer and work, and a million more "perfect" things. I looked through probably fifty communities at least, and I was shocked to see that not one of them fit my ideal. Why? Because God doesn't want us to have a "perfect" community. Our vocation is primarily for our own salvation, and salvation does not come easily. Sanctification comes through bearing things that we hate, and religious life is made with things that people hate, for the specific reason that people hate them. Why? Because these things that we hate (which are objectively good,) when done, purge us of our imperfections. When you desire to enter religious life, do not look for a community that is heaven for you, but one that is the closest thing to purgatory you can possibly find. The entire purpose of religious life is purging us of our imperfections and sanctifying us, and that's what it has always been about. This is of course not meaning that we should all look for bad communities with errant theology and toxic environments. There is a difference between purgation and abuse, and such an environment is detrimental to one's spiritual life rather than conducive. I say all of that not to be annoying, but because when you truly have that proper understanding of the meaning of religious life, you truly understand where you're drawn towards, or if you're drawn towards religious life at all. Too often we fall in love with the romance of religious life rather than its purpose, and I'm just as guilty of that as anyone else. I'm just trying to help people avoid the heartache and frustration of running after something that will be harmful to them. Ultimately, you're going to have to decide which one (Dominicans vs. Tridentine Mass) is more important to you. I completely 100% understand where you're coming from with this. It makes a lot of sense. I hadn't really thought of it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) I'm unsure if this has already been addressed (I've been forced to read too many books to care for unnecessary reading on the side,) and though this may or may not be a welcome post, I'm going to post it anyway: (As an aside, this is not referring to Mass preferences, but to the OP's asking of posters for their perfect ideals in communities.) One thing I've learned in my discernment is to completely remove the idea of a "perfect" community. I wanted a community with a perfect habit, with an adequate vacation to see my family each year, with a beautiful friary/monastery, with the perfect balance of prayer and work, and a million more "perfect" things. I looked through probably fifty communities at least, and I was shocked to see that not one of them fit my ideal. Why? Because God doesn't want us to have a "perfect" community. Our vocation is primarily for our own salvation, and salvation does not come easily. Sanctification comes through bearing things that we hate, and religious life is made with things that people hate, for the specific reason that people hate them. Why? Because these things that we hate (which are objectively good,) when done, purge us of our imperfections. When you desire to enter religious life, do not look for a community that is heaven for you, but one that is the closest thing to purgatory you can possibly find. The entire purpose of religious life is purging us of our imperfections and sanctifying us, and that's what it has always been about. This is of course not meaning that we should all look for bad communities with errant theology and toxic environments. There is a difference between purgation and abuse, and such an environment is detrimental to one's spiritual life rather than conducive. I say all of that not to be annoying, but because when you truly have that proper understanding of the meaning of religious life, you truly understand where you're drawn towards, or if you're drawn towards religious life at all. Too often we fall in love with the romance of religious life rather than its purpose, and I'm just as guilty of that as anyone else. I'm just trying to help people avoid the heartache and frustration of running after something that will be harmful to them. Ultimately, you're going to have to decide which one (Dominicans vs. Tridentine Mass) is more important to you. FP--I thought this was a well written, well thought out post. But, I'm not sure about the bolded paragraph. Obviously, God wants different things for each of us, and we need to be looking for God's will in our lives. But, I'm not sure about the idea of picking a religious Community based on which one is the "...closest thing to purgatory you can possibly find." I think that there is a reason why there are religious Communities with different charisms and apostolates. God has given people different gifts and different ways of approaching Him, and from what I have read on Phatmass, it seems that a discerner is best off if they try to find a Community that fits their natural spirituality and where they feel comfortable and at home. Whether in or out of religious life, life itself manages to provide us with an constant array of things that we find difficult and require us to work on our imperfections--there are no shortages of this for anyone. Based on comments here on Phatmass from those who have been in religious life or are currently in religious life, if nothing else, communal living, while being a great gift, also provides daily ways to learn to try to understand and forgive other people. However, I think your basic point was a good one--namely that the "perfect" religious Community does not exist. In the end, a discerner has to trust God when making the choice of a Community to join. Heck, even if a Community somehow managed to seem "perfect" when the discerner entered, life is constantly changing, and so, over a lifetime a Community will also see changes. The Community in which a discerner celebrates their 50th Jubilee may look very different from the Community the discerner joined. Edited August 30, 2015 by IgnatiusofLoyola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sr Mary Catharine OP Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Dominican Heart, I began my discernment in much the same way having grown up almost exclusively with the EF. I was a novice for 2 years with the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. But I had a wise spiritual director who, when I said that the Latin Mass was in my blood answered, "No, it's in your experience." I had to learn to discern according to CHARISM and let a lot of what I thought I needed to live religious life, die. It is part of true poverty of spirit. There are some things that all of us couldn't probably want as part of religious life but religious is so much more than the form of liturgy. So, a lot had to die within me in becoming a Dominican Nun. And then God could really enter in. And then I began to see I was called to Dominican contemplative life. Religious life is about leaving EVERYTHING to follow Christ. There will be many, many similar such renunciations in religious life. I would just say that many of the customs that reminiscere mentioned as what the Buffalo community does MANY Dominican monasteries do but it doesn't make us who we are as Dominicans. That sister clearly had a habit without wool in it. If not, it would have come out of the wash beige. Believe me, I speak from experience... Exactly! Also, not all religious are free to throw their habits in the wash whenever they want! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponsa-Christi Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 FP--I thought this was a well written, well thought out post. But, I'm not sure about the bolded paragraph. Obviously, God wants different things for each of us, and we need to be looking for God's will in our lives. But, I'm not sure about the idea of picking a religious Community based on which one is the "...closest thing to purgatory you can possibly find." I think that there is a reason why there are religious Communities with different charisms and apostolates. God has given people different gifts and different ways of approaching Him, and from what I have read on Phatmass, it seems that a discerner is best off if they try to find a Community that fits their natural spirituality and where they feel comfortable and at home. Whether in or out of religious life, life itself manages to provide us with an constant array of things that we find difficult and require us to work on our imperfections--there are no shortages of this for anyone. Based on comments here on Phatmass from those who have been in religious life or are currently in religious life, if nothing else, communal living, while being a great gift, also provides daily ways to learn to try to understand and forgive other people. However, I think your basic point was a good one--namely that the "perfect" religious Community does not exist. In the end, a discerner has to trust God when making the choice of a Community to join. Heck, even if a Community somehow managed to seem "perfect" when the discerner entered, life is constantly changing, and so, over a lifetime a Community will also see changes. The Community in which a discerner celebrates their 50th Jubilee may look very different from the Community the discerner joined. This was almost exactly what I was thinking. FP does have a good point about letting go of the idea of finding the "perfect" community, but I'm not sure how well it would go over if a discerner were to tell the Vocation Director: "This community is my idea of Purgatory!" Also, I remember hearing an expression once that those who enter a monastery in order to punish themselves actually wind up punishing the community! Dominican Heart, I began my discernment in much the same way having grown up almost exclusively with the EF. I was a novice for 2 years with the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. But I had a wise spiritual director who, when I said that the Latin Mass was in my blood answered, "No, it's in your experience." I had to learn to discern according to CHARISM and let a lot of what I thought I needed to live religious life, die. It is part of true poverty of spirit. There are some things that all of us couldn't probably want as part of religious life but religious is so much more than the form of liturgy. So, a lot had to die within me in becoming a Dominican Nun. And then God could really enter in. And then I began to see I was called to Dominican contemplative life. Religious life is about leaving EVERYTHING to follow Christ. There will be many, many similar such renunciations in religious life. This is kind of a theoretical question on my part (and may be too off-topic---if so, my apologies), but I would be interested to hear thoughts from some of the religious here on the relationship between finding a charism you relate to profoundly and embracing "poverty of spirit" by letting go of your preferences for a religious community. On a superficial level, this would almost seem to be a bit of a contradiction, but of course on a deeper level I know it's not. I hope that makes sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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