crusader1234 Posted June 17, 2004 Posted June 17, 2004 Its late and I'm bored, so I figured I'd answer some questions from Q&A that remain unanswered. [quote]I have heard that there will be no more updates, but is it still binding? Was it ever enforced in the past? Why was Les Miserables on the Index? (I was under the impression that book was free of anti-Catholicism, and it portrayed that archbishop in the beginning as a very good guy.) I also heard that Dante Alighieri was banned. Why was this? [/quote] While I'm not sure of the binding nature, it was supressed in 1966 which indicates to me that it is no longer binding. It was enforced in the past, certain works could result in excommunication, etc. Dante is believed to have been banned due to the fact that in the Divine Comedy, he portrayed 7 Popes (arguably not very good Popes) as having been sent to hell.
crusader1234 Posted June 17, 2004 Author Posted June 17, 2004 Les Miserables was prohibited, by the way, until 1959, 7 years before the supression.
popestpiusx Posted June 17, 2004 Posted June 17, 2004 I don't believe Dante's Divine Comedy was ever put on the index, though I could be wrong. As regards the binding nature, Cardinal Ratzinger stated in 1985 that "The Index retains its moral force despite its dissolution". This leads me to conclude that the Vatican did not actually abolish the index, but rather will not add anything else to it. This is probably for practical reasons more than anything. If they maintained it, the task would be enormous. It would be shorter to list what books people are allowed to read.
thicke Posted June 17, 2004 Posted June 17, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Jun 17 2004, 04:49 AM'] If they maintained it, the task would be enormous. It would be shorter to list what books people are allowed to read. [/quote] Amen PSPX....Especailly in this day and age.
Iacobus Posted June 17, 2004 Posted June 17, 2004 I have read Lord of teh Flies and Dante and probly a million other books that could have been or have been on the list. Hpwever I don't base my faith off what I read but some people do so I see how it could smart to have such a list.
crusader1234 Posted June 17, 2004 Author Posted June 17, 2004 I double checked and Dante was (is) on the list, so technically I shouldn't have read his stuff. Les Miserables was on the list, but since it was taken off in '59 its not prohibited. The Catholic Encylopedia on the New Advent website has lots to say.
popestpiusx Posted June 17, 2004 Posted June 17, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 17 2004, 05:47 PM'] I double checked and Dante was (is) on the list, so technically I shouldn't have read his stuff. Les Miserables was on the list, but since it was taken off in '59 its not prohibited. The Catholic Encylopedia on the New Advent website has lots to say. [/quote] Can you give a source for the Dante bit, because Pope Benedict XV wrote an enyclical, promulgated on April 30 1921, entitiled [i]IN PRAECLARA SUMMORUM[/i] praising his works. I don't think that would have happened if his stuff was on the Index.
crusader1234 Posted June 17, 2004 Author Posted June 17, 2004 [quote]DANTE ALIGHIERI. De Monarchia was burned in Lombardy, 1318, and banned in Rome, 1559. In 1581 The Divine Comedy was ordered corrected before circulation in Portugal. The works of Dante were burned by Savonarola, who was burned in his turn together with his books. [/quote] from: [url="http://spencer.lib.ku.edu/exhibits/bannedbooks/variouscountries.html"]link[/url] [quote]His De Monarchia is an overt attack on the theory of papal overlordship formulated by the canon lawyers. For centuries, this treatise was kept on the index of prohibited books. It offers the classical instance of a great work utilizing to the full the moral structure of creation. He was a man of prodigious learning and deep piety. Dante was particularly uncomplimentary to his contemporary Boniface VIII, whom he consigned to Hell, along with several other popes. In Dante's view, it is regrettable that Constantine ever made his Donation to the pope and thereby involved the vicar of Christ in worldly matters.[/quote] from: [url="http://latter-rain.com/ltrain/dante.htm"]link[/url] [quote]1318 France-Lombardy: "De Monarchia" was publicly burned. 1559 Italy-Rome: "De Monarchia" banned by Pope Paul IV and the Index of Trent for asserting that the authority of Kings was derived from God, not through God's Vicar on earth, the Pope. 1581 Portugal-Lisbon: "La Divina Commedia" prohibited by Church authorities. [/quote] from: [url="http://www.personal.kent.edu/~rmuhamma/Literature/literature.html"]link[/url]
Iacobus Posted June 17, 2004 Posted June 17, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 17 2004, 04:47 PM'] I double checked and Dante was (is) on the list, so technically I shouldn't have read his stuff. Les Miserables was on the list, but since it was taken off in '59 its not prohibited. The Catholic Encylopedia on the New Advent website has lots to say. [/quote] LOL! Father told us to avoid New Advent. LOL! He said the 1913 virson is a bit out of date and therefore we need to come to the parish and use the NEW mutli voumble one.
curtins Posted June 17, 2004 Posted June 17, 2004 I have absolutly no idea what you guys are talking about
popestpiusx Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 Thanks Crusader. I suppose what I was getting at was more recent. His works were obviously taken off the index or the Holy Father, Pope Benedict XV would not have issued an encyclical praising them (in the 1920's). I'm just curuious when and who.
crusader1234 Posted June 18, 2004 Author Posted June 18, 2004 Everything is sort of vague, and unfortunately (or fortunately depending on which side of the Index you are on) there is no online list.
cmotherofpirl Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 I can think of several books that should be banned
Iacobus Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 No book should every be banned. I have unflitered internet, people ask me why? My freedom is safe only when I am uniformed and able to see what I want to see. I don't see the bad stuff but in theory I could. But you block that bad stuff using a fliter you kill good stuff as well. As a programmer I don't trust a program to do what I do. Banning books would be limiting freedom of speech and expression. What is connected to that? Religion. What would you do if as a Catholic you were not allowed to openly pratice your faith? Ban books, limit rights, make precndent. Not good. A republic only thrives of freedom of information.
let_go_let_God Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 And if we started banning more books what would stop other groups of people banning the Bible or the CCC. Thank goodness we live in a country where the freedom of speech and religion are kept. Although it could be kept better.
Mickey's_Girl Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 17 2004, 04:47 PM'] Les Miserables was on the list, but since it was taken off in '59 its not prohibited. [/quote] Erm? I'm trying to figure out how Les Mis could be bad...I haven't read the whole thing, but I've probably gotten 1/5 through the unabridged version (so, about 300 pages), and everything I've seen is quite pro-Catholic. ?? Is it because Victor Hugo misbehaved? MG
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