Discerning with a new community

[josephine]

there are also a couple of older threads about the difference between a healthy religious community and cults and i do advise you to look at those. these 20 are from the ICSA and have been posted before.

1) total obedience to the pope - as a way to bypass the local authorities aka bishop. related to those are 2 and 3.

2) no sense of belonging to the local church

3) no respect for local authorities 

4) makes use of lies to gain approval

5) too soon an emphasis on placing all goods in common

6) claiming special revelations or messages as a reason to found to community

7) special status of the founder

8) special or severe penances 

9) multiple devotions without any unity (as nada pointed out above)

10) promotion of fringe elements within the church (special devotions, private revelations, extreme social or political agendas)

11) special vows

12) absolute secrety to the outside, no privacy on the inside

13) control over the confessors and spiritual directors

14) serious discontent of previous institutions that members were part of

15) any form of sexual misconduct

16) the group is preoccupied with bringing in new members

17) the group is preoccupied with making money (transparancy of money in general)

18) elitsm aka their group is the best

19) leadership uses guilt to control members

20) members have no contact with the outside world including friends and familymembers

 

remember, these are indicators, not clearcut measuresticks. but do keep them in mind when discerning any community.

 

[Nunsuch]

I would also keep in mind that there are many established communities of all sorts that are actively welcoming new members. Their stability and their traditions are worth considering. Also, one of the benefits of community life is having members of varying ages and personal stories. 

New communities, as many people have said, have their own challenges, but one thing I think it important to consider is whether it really is meeting an otherwise unmet need, or reflecting a new charism? If not, then does it have a real justification for existence? A new community is supposed to emerge for both spiritual and practical reasons--if those aren't apparent, then the likelihood of long-term survival is weaker.

Are there already established communities that appeal to you? This may take some effort to discover, but may be a really beneficial thing in the long run--particularly for Benedictines, with *stability* as a fundamental attribute of their monasteries!

[AveMariaPurissima]

The thing is, even the orders that are now centuries old were, at one time, brand new.  Someone(s) had to take the leap of faith and enter a new community that was just getting its feet off the ground.  If no one ever joined a community just because it was new, well, there wouldn't be any religious communities at all! 

After all, if a certain Thomas Aquinas hadn't joined those newfangled Dominicans (who had only been around for not quite 30 years at the time, if my math is correct)....

I guess it comes down to grace and where God is calling you, while being prudent in discerning if the community is healthy and if you really have what it takes (with God's grace, of course) to be a pioneer and really a co-founder/foundress in a new community, with all the unique trials and struggles that go with such an endeavor.

 

Just some other thoughts...all things being equal, I still would prefer an established community, myself!

[Nunsuch]

Yes, AMP, but the Dominicans had been around for 30 years--and had a lot more than 2 or 3 members by the time St. Thomas Aquinas came along. IS there a need for all the communities that are emerging with just a handful of members? Keep in mind, too, that in the past, communication and transportation were much more difficult than now, so the need for more small and scattered communities was greater. History shows that most of them did not survive. And most of these will not, either. That is not bad--some congregations meet a limited need for a short time--but it is a danger.

[AveMariaPurissima]

I know it wasn't a perfect comparison.  Really, I was only trying to be light hearted.

[Mary Catherine]

Dear sister in Christ,

Of course this congregation is not a cult, and I see it is healthy indeed.

They are open to the faithful and their spirituality is purely Benedictine.

But they have just started this May, and living in a benefactor's house. I thought there would be many girls joining them, may be they are coming...

[Gabriela]

1 hour ago, Mary Catherine said:

Dear sister in Christ,

Of course this congregation is not a cult, and I see it is healthy indeed.

They are open to the faithful and their spirituality is purely Benedictine.

But they have just started this May, and living in a benefactor's house. I thought there would be many girls joining them, may be they are coming...

I hope you didn't take offense at Josephine's posting of that list, Mary Catherine. It's something we regularly post whenever there may be reason for people to wonder about a community (like, when it's brand new). It wasn't an accusation, just a reminder to people not to get swept away with some community they love. As others have said, prudence (and some measure of practicality!) always has a place.

Personally, I hadn't read that list for a long time, but now that I just have again, I see in one of the communities I visited a lot of those elements. I should have looked harder at the list when I was discerning with them, because flags probably would have gone up sooner. That community is now in the midst of visitations. So... it never hurts to just go through the list, even if you think it isn't relevant!

[Sponsa-Christi]

10 minutes ago, Gabriela said:

I hope you didn't take offense at Josephine's posting of that list, Mary Catherine. It's something we regularly post whenever there may be reason for people to wonder about a community (like, when it's brand new). It wasn't an accusation, just a reminder to people not to get swept away with some community they love. As others have said, prudence (and some measure of practicality!) always has a place.

Personally, I hadn't read that list for a long time, but now that I just have again, I see in one of the communities I visited a lot of those elements. I should have looked harder at the list when I was discerning with them, because flags probably would have gone up sooner. That community is now in the midst of visitations. So... it never hurts to just go through the list, even if you think it isn't relevant!

Building on what Gabriela said, for the kinds of questions presented in the OP, people here are going to respond in a very general way. I.e., we're naturally going to discuss new communities in general, rather than commenting specifically on the un-named community you're discerning with. 

[Graciela]

I would encourage readers of this thread to see the posts about Maria Elisabetta Patrizzi and the two communities that she founded which have now been suppressed according to a post on that thread. Sounds like maybe there was a cult of personality around the foundress there. I can remember when the SMMI (the first community that she founded) were all the rage amongst young women who wanted an order in the habit, and they were growing so fast! Now they are disbanded.

I have concerns about the two former PCPA sisters who now want to found new communities. One especially, the one to serve priests, is clearly not a new idea: the Oblates of the Sacred Heart of Jesus have had this apostolate since 1834, as have other communities who are established. The Benedictine Daughters of Divine Will, also founded by another former Hanceville PCPA, feels weird with their emphasis on the private revelations of a Luisa Piccarretti.  Given how many sisters have left Hanceville since Mother Angelica was seriously disabled by her last stroke, and the fact the the ecclesial authorities mandated that they have an outside Benedictine nun as their acting superior for a number of years thereafter,  I wonder how healthy that community was in the first place. It is concerning that they may have the attitude that no one else is doing it "correctly" so they must start new communities.

I am less concerned by a new Benedictine community forming, as good support from existing Benedictine communities is available, with 1500 years of experience. It would depend very much on what resources from the Benedictine family are being drawn upon in the new foundation. For example, the Solesmes family of Benedictines have been preserving beautiful Latin liturgy for a long time and are well established.

All in all, I feel very wary about some of the new communities that are being founded.  With so many communities in existence already, I would be very alert for the potential signs listed above before considering a new community.

[Sponsa-Christi]

16 minutes ago, Graciela said:

I would encourage readers of this thread to see the posts about Maria Elisabetta Patrizzi and the two communities that she founded which have now been suppressed according to a post on that thread. Sounds like maybe there was a cult of personality around the foundress there. I can remember when the SMMI (the first community that she founded) were all the rage amongst young women who wanted an order in the habit, and they were growing so fast! Now they are disbanded.

I have concerns about the two former PCPA sisters who now want to found new communities. One especially, the one to serve priests, is clearly not a new idea: the Oblates of the Sacred Heart of Jesus have had this apostolate since 1834, as have other communities who are established. The Benedictine Daughters of Divine Will, also founded by another former Hanceville PCPA, feels weird with their emphasis on the private revelations of a Luisa Piccarretti. 

I also have some concerns about the idea of a community founded around the private revelations of Luisa Piccarreta, as I read some of her writings and found that they seemed a bit "off" to me theologically (although granted, this was just my first impression after a cursory reading, and I was reading an English translation). 

Re. the new community founded to serve priests, my first thought was that this did seem similar to a few already-existing communities. However, I'm wondering if maybe this new community might have been started with the special encouragement or request of the local bishop. Just because a similar community already exists doesn't automatically mean that said community will be able to open a house in a particular diocese. Also, I think this new community might have a slightly different spirituality, or perhaps a more contemplative focus.

[Sponsa-Christi]

26 minutes ago, Graciela said:

All in all, I feel very wary about some of the new communities that are being founded.  With so many communities in existence already, I would be very alert for the potential signs listed above before considering a new community.

As a canon lawyer, I feel like I do have some insight as to all the different ways a new community could go wrong, and so I would echo all the cautions and calls for prudence which have already been brought up in this thread.

Still, although I have never been a member of a new community, I am a consecrated virgin, so I have some experience pioneering a "new" form of consecrated life. When I was discerning and newly-consecrated, I had a lot of people ask me why I couldn't have just entered an established community. But for me, it wasn't a matter of not being able to find a community I liked, but rather that I felt a very strong positive call to the vocation of consecrated virginity.

So even while it's important to be very careful and discerning when considering a new community, we should keep in mind that there are times when the Holy Spirit really is inspiring a new charism in the life of the Church.

[chrysostom]

I do get the concern about new communities with very similar charisms to another's.  I would note, however, that globalization has its limits.  Travel overseas or across the country can be a large obstacle.  One might say that there are many communities, sure, but many are not widespread.  And indeed, the lady who started the thread might only find a bare handful of female communities similar to hers in the world (i.e. traditional liturgy + Benedictine spirituality) and I'm sure the same is true of other kinds of vocations.

[sr.christinaosf]

It is a beautiful thing how each of us is different and unique.  I am struck by this when I see two other sisters (in newer communities) who are from my hometown.  

While one person likes the newness and challenges posed by a 'new community,' others of us find our place in older, more established congregations.  This thread reminded me of a poem our Sister Patricia wrote, entitled "Psalm of God's Providence.'  I actually shared it in a recent blog post.  Our Congregation has been around since 1241 and it chronicles our history with an 'attitude of gratitude.'  

Regardless of 'new' or 'old' there are going to be struggles and our attitude and faithfulness are crucial.