"For That Moment Become An Atheist"

[Guest]

Edited December 2, 2015 by Guest

[Ash Wednesday]

No.

All good comes from God. Even an atheist's inner sense of morality is the natural law written on the heart of every man by God alone.

[Era Might]

I think this story is echoed in the Gospels too. In Matthew 11 Jesus talks about John the Baptist, and even though in terms of spiritual figures there is no man born of woman greater than John, still, the least in the kingdom is greater than John, because those who belong to the kingdom are not the ascetics in the desert like John, but all those who are not supposed to belong, the blind, the lame, the possessed, the prostitute, the publican. They belong precisely because they are not supposed to belong. That's why the Gentiles received Christ and the Jews did not, the Gentiles were the "atheists" so to speak, but it was that atheism, that blindness, that allowed them to see, while the scribes and pharisees were blinded by belief.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Era Might

[Credo in Deum]

[xSilverPhinx]

 

4 hours ago, Josh said:

That's how most of us see ourselves. 

[Ice_nine]

3 minutes ago, xSilverPhinx said:

 

That's how most of us see ourselves. 

oh, as morally superior to religious people?

Splendid! Chris Hitchens would be proud.

[xSilverPhinx]

Just now, Ice_nine said:

oh, as morally superior to religious people?

Splendid! Chris Hitchens would be proud.

Not necessarily as morally superior (though yes, many of the New Atheists do view it to be that way). Motivations might be different: there's no afterlife reward to expect, nor brownie points to earn in return. Most atheists would do something good because of intrinsic motivation, and because it feels good to do good. 

[Era Might]

23 minutes ago, xSilverPhinx said:

Not necessarily as morally superior (though yes, many of the New Atheists do view it to be that way). Motivations might be different: there's no afterlife reward to expect, nor brownie points to earn in return. Most atheists would do something good because of intrinsic motivation, and because it feels good to do good. 

Just to come at that from a different perspective, do-goodism is not neutral. It comes with a whole lot of ideological assumptions (economic, political, social, personal). Religion is just one ideological motive, but the secular atheist who goes to the Third World to save the poor brown children is not a vacuum, and just because he is "doing good" in his mind doesn't mean he's not a tool who can't see his own ideology.

[xSilverPhinx]

13 minutes ago, Era Might said:

Just to come at that from a different perspective, do-goodism is not neutral. It comes with a whole lot of ideological assumptions (economic, political, social, personal). Religion is just one ideological motive, but the secular atheist who goes to the Third World to save the poor brown children is not a vacuum, and just because he is "doing good" in his mind doesn't mean he's not a tool who can't see his own ideology.

Of course, even a nihilistic atheist is not an ideological vacuum; and ideologies, beliefs and self-perception fuel behaviour. 

I'm not saying that an atheist might not also have a streak of selfishness when doing good. There is an element of selfishness both in doing something to feel good and doing something because you believe you'll be rewarded for it.  

[Anomaly]

The golden rule.  Do unto others as you would have done to you. 

Divne inspiration for a Christian. 

Nihilsm in an atheist. 

[KnightofChrist]

A faithful Christian does not do good for a good or evil neighbor for some reward. A faithful Christian does good for neighbors out of love for the neighbor and of God. An athiest following what is written within his or her heart by God can also do good for a neighbor out of love for at least the neighbor.

 

 

 

 

 

[Peace]

Every so-called atheist knows that God exists anyway. They reject God, and standing behind these "lack of evidence" arguments is just a pretense to mask the fact that they reject God. I think it is kind of a cowardly rebellion.

[Gabriela]

8 hours ago, Josh said:

I think there are "translation" problems here. This is written in "Yiddish", not in "Catholic". Let me try a translation:

.... The Master responds "God created atheists to teach us the most important lesson of them all—the lesson of [the innateness of] true compassion [as a virtue inscribed in EVERY human heart by God]. You see, when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so [in his own mind] his acts are based on an inner sense of morality [not one given by God—again, in his own mind]. And [yet] look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right. [This is hard evidence that God has inscribed the potential for virtue on all human hearts, that they are innate, that conscience is of God, and not solely the product of personal religious beliefs.]"

"This means," the Master continued "that when someone reaches out to you for help, you should never say 'I pray that God will help you [but I will not].' [To do that would be to deny your God-given duty to help your neighbor.] Instead, for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say 'I will help you' [as the atheist would, since he cannot defer that responsibility to God, as he believes in none. In doing this, you will never use your religion to shirk your moral responsibilities. This is what the atheist can teach you: One, that virtue and morality are innate, and that you are a religious jerk if you use God to deny your neighbor. These are the lessons that you can learn from atheists. Even they, therefore, have a purpose in God's design.]"

There is absolutely nothing objectionable to Catholics in here. It's the basic Christian teaching that, if you say you'll pray for someone to somehow get enough food when you could give him food yourself, you're being a jerk. Jews write more concisely than Catholics because they expect that the people they're talking to understand a great deal of basic Jewish teaching and have a fundamentally Jewish worldview. (We used to do the same back when it could be assumed that people's worldviews were basically Catholic.) Because of that expectation, they leave many assumptions unstated and get right to the point, knowing their listeners will fill in what's necessary and not misinterpret things because it wasn't all spelled out letter by letter in proper theological jargon.

6 hours ago, Ash Wednesday said:

No.

All good comes from God. Even an atheist's inner sense of morality is the natural law written on the heart of every man by God alone.

So, yes, actually.

[KnightofChrist]

As it was originally written it is in conflict with Catholicism. God does not create Athiests, he creates those who become Athiests. The article as originally written does not imply that the Athiest is following the law of God written in the heart. But rather the Athiest's inner belief. Lastly and perhaps most important we should never imagine there is no God to do good. We should do good for our love of neighbor and God.

[xSilverPhinx]

6 minutes ago, Peace said:

Every so-called atheist knows that God exists anyway. They reject God, and standing behind these "lack of evidence" arguments is just a pretense to mask the fact that they reject God. I think it is kind of a cowardly rebellion.

LOL, wut?  A bold statement, though you couldn't be more wrong. You may think you have some insight into an atheist's mindset when it comes to (any) religious claims but you actually really don't.

Of course I reject something I see no evidence for. If I claimed that there was an invisible dragon in my garage, would you accept it?  

Ever heard of misotheism? Misotheists and atheists are different creatures and I think you may be confusing the two on some level. Misotheists still believe in a god but hate and reject the concept whereas for atheists, it's just...a concept. There's nothing there other than a concept. How can you hate or rebel against something that doesn't exist for you? 

I don't see how someone rejecting all gods would be cowardly, though, care to elaborate? 

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Peace said:

Every so-called atheist knows that God exists anyway. They reject God, and standing behind these "lack of evidence" arguments is just a pretense to mask the fact that they reject God. I think it is kind of a cowardly rebellion.

I'm friends with a lot of agnostic/atheist. Most of them genuinely don't believe in God. You speak pretty boldly when you use the word "every". It's not like it's 100 percent obvious God exist. On my worst day I'm agnostic at moments.

[Peace]

14 hours ago, xSilverPhinx said:

LOL, wut?  A bold statement, though you couldn't be more wrong. You may think you have some insight into an atheist's mindset when it comes to (any) religious claims but you actually really don't.

Please. You know plenty well that God exists. Even a complete idiot knows that God exists. The reason why you are an atheist is for other reasons. What are they?

14 hours ago, xSilverPhinx said:

Of course I reject something I see no evidence for.

 No. there is plenty of evidence. You refuse to acknowledge it because you reject God.

14 hours ago, xSilverPhinx said:

If I claimed that there was an invisible dragon in my garage, would you accept it?  

No.

14 hours ago, xSilverPhinx said:

Ever heard of misotheism? Misotheists and atheists are different creatures and I think you may be confusing the two on some level. Misotheists still believe in a god but hate and reject the concept whereas for atheists, it's just...a concept. There's nothing there other than a concept. How can you hate or rebel against something that doesn't exist for you? 

Have you ever been in a relationship? Do you know what the silent treatment is? You pretend that the other person does not exist in order to attempt to harm him or her. That is what atheists are. They pretend or try to trick themselves into believing that God does not exist because they reject His love and authority.

14 hours ago, xSilverPhinx said:

I don't see how someone rejecting all gods would be cowardly, though, care to elaborate? 

Because you know that God exists. Satan and the other fallen angels explicitly rebelled against God. Although they were fools, at least they were man enough to admit what they were doing, and the choice that they made. You on the other hand, try to delude yourself into believing that you not are rebelling against God, by pretending that He does not exist. Because you are not man enough to face up to your own choices. Perhaps it is a form of passive-aggressive behavior?

Whatever the case may be, you definitely need to get your mind right.

Peace

[Era Might]

5 minutes ago, Peace said:

Please. You know plenty well that God exists. Even a complete idiot knows that God exists. The reason why you are an atheist is for other reasons. What are they?

 No. there is plenty of evidence. You refuse to acknowledge it because you reject God.

No.

Have you ever been in a relationship? Do you know what the silent treatment is? You pretend that the other person does not exist in order to attempt to harm him or her. That is what atheists are. They pretend or try to trick themselves into believing that God does not exist because they reject His love and authority.

Because you know that God exists. Satan and the other fallen angels explicitly rebelled against God. Although they were fools, at least they were man enough to admit what they were doing, and the choice that they made. You on the other hand, try to delude yourself into believing that you not are rebelling against God, by pretending that He does not exist. Because you are not man enough to face up to your own choices. Perhaps it is a form of passive-aggressive behavior?

Whatever the case may be, you definitely need to get your mind right.

Peace

I think the last few Popes have more respect for atheists AND atheisn than you do. To say that atheism is passive-aggressive silent treatment is about the same as saying religion is just the opiate of the masses. It fails to take seriously the inner life of man which is not synomous with psychology or religion. Satan was not man enough for anything, because he wasn't a man at all, and did not have the inner, bodily life of man.

[Peace]

10 hours ago, Josh said:

I'm friends with a lot of agnostic/atheist. Most of them genuinely don't believe in God. You speak pretty boldly when you use the word "every". It's not like it's 100 percent obvious God exist. On my worst day I'm agnostic at moments.

Sorry. I have atheist friends too. I don't believe that they genuinely don't believe in God. I believe that they are either liars or have just tricked themselves into believing a lie (like people who train themselves to pass lie-detector tests). The natural inclination of man is to believe in God. You need to have your mind twisted to reach any other conclusion.

I doubt from time to time like everyone else. Those doubts come from Satan and should be rejected. It is what it is.

I am a former atheist by the way - for over 5 years.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Peace said:

Sorry. I have atheist friends too. I don't believe that they genuinely don't believe in God. I believe that they are either liars or have just tricked themselves into believing a lie (like people who train themselves to pass lie-detector tests). The natural inclination of man is to believe in God. You need to have your mind twisted to reach any other conclusion.

I doubt from time to time like everyone else. Those doubts come from Satan and should be rejected. It is what it is.

I am a former atheist by the way - for over 5 years.

Well I know sincere agnostics. I'm not friends with militant atheist. This world is pretty evil. I can see someone being genuinely agnostic. Although if they search for God I'm confident He will reveal Himself. He did to me 12 years ago. It took seeking Him out 100 percent though. As far as sincere atheist I know some. They aren't militant in my interaction with them but they don't believe in God. Further they have problems with the Christian God and how He's presented. They hate Christian/Religious Fundamentalism. As do I.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Guest