Capitalism

[Cure of Ars]

Capitalism seems to have done a lot of good with regards to physical needs of humanity but I think it kills the spiritual. What do you guys think?

[Archbishop 10-K]

Hasn't Pope JPII thought of capitalism and communism as flip sides of the same coin?


I think capitalism is not inherently evil, but it's definitely treated by many Americans as God's gift to the world (the same people who think God is an American and that God believes in secular republicanism.)

I can't stand that opinion. The best government is one that puts God first, not the people. You can't serve both God and Mammon.

[Sojourner]

If we're talking about capitalism in the pure, laissez-faire sense of the word, I'd say it's not all it's cracked up to be. Perhaps in an ideal society peopled by responsible, morally guided folks it could work, but such a society does not exist. There have to be checks and balances in the system.

With that said, I think the competition engendered by a capitalistic society can produce some good ends and innovations.

[spoonman3884]

Many of the principles of Capitalism (in its ideal form) are similar to the principles of Catholicism: individual discernment and free will, charity, concern for others... this is of course not the form of capitalism that is in place in most societies around the world today, though. The Capitalism that is in place in society today is unfortunately based more on principles like "money is power," "might makes right," and "materialism brings happiness." I see Capitalism not as an intrinsic evil but certainly as a flawed system that tends to bring harm to the weakest members of society (those who Christ finds most blessed).

[jasJis]

spoonman is so right!

Capitalism is not as flawed as Communism because it does allow for more freedoms and opportunity to the people. It's how people govern themselves within the two economic systems that has the bigger impact.

Capitalism lends itself to democracy because people are seeking opportunity and have positive motives. Communism lends itself to to tyranny because it seeks to force prodictivity instead of encouraging the self-motivation of seeking opportunity.

Scripturally, both economic systems are very workable, but humanity has to operate either with the Morality that God and Christianity graces us with. What good to the World is the forced charity in Communism? What good to the World is the ignored opportunity of charity in Capitalism?

[yiannii]

Nothing wrong with Capitalism if it has the Catholic social ethic behind it.

[MorphRC]

Its evil, its neither neccessary or wanted. Well thats just me, but I aint a billion dollar oil boss

[MorphRC]

[quote name='yiannii' date='Jun 21 2004, 03:12 PM'] Nothing wrong with Capitalism if it has the Catholic social ethic behind it. [/quote]
Yes. Wonderful fantasy Bro

Capitalism is based on lies, extortion, money-grubbing.

Ethics and Capitalism are like two HIGHLY NEON CHARGE MAGNETS

[yiannii]

well have a look at your own life and your country, where would you be if there was no capitalism? capitalism is what has increased the standard of living for so many western countries who have embraced capitalism.

what other system can you think of? communism? yeah it sounds good but aswith everything else left in human hands, corruption will leak in eventually, if not straight away.

[jasJis]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Jun 21 2004, 12:23 AM'] Its evil, its neither neccessary or wanted. Well thats just me, but I aint a billion dollar oil boss [/quote]
Neither am I a billion dollar oil boss.

I'm a 2nd generation american, by dad's parents were immigrants.
My wife was an immigrant.
Many in my family married immigrants or are only a few generations american.
Many of us have family that live in other countries

None of us are billion dollar oil bosses, but we all can appreciate and recognize the freedoms, opportunities, and problems that democracy and capitolism have brought to our families here in the US?

How many Cuban refugees do you know? How many illegal Mexican or South American or Central American or Island immigrants do you know? How many Viet Namese 'boat people' do you know? How many Soviet Bloc escapees do you know? My family has married many of these people, I live in an area rich with these people, and my family has helped many of these people, including helping people defect from communist countries.

They didn't come here for greed but for the opportunity to pursue the human potential God created them with. It [b]is[/b] just you to call Capitolism evil and unwanted and not neccessary. Anything gets twisted without Christian morality, anything gets improved with the application of Christian morality.

[MorphRC]

As much as id love to talk about money and immorality. just look at ur own country, hardly a country that should be spreading 'democracy'.

[jasJis]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Jun 21 2004, 10:30 AM'] As much as id love to talk about money and immorality. just look at ur own country, hardly a country that should be spreading 'democracy'. [/quote]
And your country's [u]current[/u] history with the Maori is the example we should follow??

[MorphRC]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Jun 22 2004, 04:22 AM'] And your country's [u]current[/u] history with the Maori is the example we should follow?? [/quote]
Errr I aint a kiwi.

Im Australian. And yes the sitution with the Aborigines isnt good, but its a lot better than 10years ago. Australia is a more law-filled and protective nation than America will every be the only reason America goes to protect a people is for foriegn policy or political attributes.

Oh and hows the Poppy destroying going in Afghanistan? Oh thats right only 4% of the total has been destroyed, and all that gets shipped off to the states, my country and other Western Countries, youve been there for over 2yrs, YET ITS STILL THERE. And yes I know about the economic sitution in Afghanistan and that is the mainly, and almost the only source of income for them, heres an idea, build some economic markets, you spend 4times more in Iraq a day than you do in Afghanistan in a week.

[William Putnam]

[quote name='Cure of Ars' date='Jun 17 2004, 01:57 PM']Capitalism seems to have done a lot of good with regards to physical needs of humanity but I think it kills the spiritual.  What do you guys think?[/quote]
But does it kill the spiritual more then the other political systems we have?

I'ts all relative, I suppose, but I tend to think of systems, such as communism, nazism, and a few others for me to think, Capitalism, in and of itself, is good, a [i]neutral[/i] good if you will, that will let both good or evil come into it, per the person who is so inclined.

That is part of the gift of God in making us in His image-we have the free will to choose evil or good.

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+


[i]Give me that [b]REAL[/b] old time religion!
The CATHOLIC CHURCH, 2,000 years of history! [/i]

[William Putnam]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Jun 22 2004, 12:03 AM']Errr I aint a kiwi.

Im Australian. And yes the sitution with the Aborigines isnt good, but its a lot better than 10years ago. Australia is a more law-filled and protective nation than America will every be the only reason America goes to protect a people is for foriegn policy or political attributes.

Oh and hows the Poppy destroying going in Afghanistan? Oh thats right only 4% of the total has been destroyed, and all that gets shipped off to the states, my country and other Western Countries, youve been there for over 2yrs, YET ITS STILL THERE. And yes I know about the economic sitution in Afghanistan and that is the mainly, and almost the only source of income for them, heres an idea, build some economic markets, you spend 4times more in Iraq a day than you do in Afghanistan in a week.[/quote]
So what do you propose we do then?

Shall we do the "Agent Orange" thing like we did in Vietnam, over the poppy fields of Afganistan, passing over the State of Virginia on our way and do likewise to the tobacco fields there as well?

I get well short of temper when others think the government must do everything, never mind that the Afgans will form their own government and do something on their own concerning the poppy fields, as well as we wish the Iraqi's will also do in a few days.

You sound like a liberal democrat, Aussee! Come over here and you would be quite at home with our boy John Kerry........<sheeeesh!>

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+


[i]I believe in God,
the Father Almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth;
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son,
Our Lord;
who was conceived by the holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died,
and was buried.

He descended into hell;
the third day He arose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
sitteth at the right hand of God,
the Father almighty;
from thence He shall come to judge
the living and the dead.

I believe in the holy Spirit,
the Holy Catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.

Amen.[/i]

- [b]The Apostles Creed[/b] -

[Mary's Knight, La]

any political/social/economic system can be used to cause spiritual and physical harm to people however capitalism seems to offer the most opportunity for correction of errors made e.g. consumers can rebel and put a company out of business *if* enough choose to at the same time i don't see how communism offers that opportunity though i support communism in it's ideal form (e.g. the form in my mind)

[William Putnam]

[quote name='Mary's Knight' date=' La,Jun 22 2004, 05:28 PM']any political/social/economic system can be used to cause spiritual and physical harm to people however capitalism seems to offer the most opportunity for correction of errors made e.g. consumers can rebel and put a company out of business *if* enough choose to at the same time i don't see how communism offers that opportunity though i support communism in it's ideal form (e.g. the form in my mind)[/quote]
Least anyone misinterpret what you say here, [i]pure[/i] communism is found in a Catholic religious order!

And that is, of course, the "ideal form!"

BTW, Louisiana? Have a daughter who lives in Covington, LA. St. Peter's parish, a very active parish with some real serious Catholics there!

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+



[i]Pillar and Foundation of Truth, the Church.[/i] (1 Tim 3:15)

Edited June 22, 2004 by William Putnam

[jasJis]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Jun 22 2004, 12:03 AM'] . Australia is a more law-filled and protective nation than America will every be the only reason America goes to protect a people is for foriegn policy or political attributes. [/quote]
One word..

guffaw!

[MorphRC]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Jun 23 2004, 10:16 AM'] One word..

guffaw!  [/quote]
Yes and whats the average murder rate in the US? oh about 1 person every 3 minutes or so..whys that? ohh any moron can have a gun. Here no guns, no weapons at all. Murders a day? .65. In a week, at worst. 4-6.

Yes..Guffaw..whatever the heck that means.

Edited June 23, 2004 by MorphRC

[jasJis]

Dude, get you facts straight. The US has more people, so of course we would have more murders. You want to compare the murders per capita. Yes, the US has a higher rate, but it's not just because we have guns. We have guns because of the history of the Country. We weren't created in a remote back-water continent with imported prisoners who weren't allowed to have sharp sticks, much less reall arms.