MarysLittleFlower Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 14 minutes ago, Josh said: Each individual believer who has faith in Christ makes up the Church. The Bible says we are Priest. And as far as the Catholic Church not being the whore of Babylon tons of people disagree with you. @Gladius is right in this thread telling me I have "quite the dilemma" I personally don't think this is the case or I wouldn't remain Catholic. At the same time I'm not 100 percent sure. Revelations warns us about this. I'm a little confused with the Catholic Churches teaching on Islam. There's Catholics with active ministries saying similar things negative about the current Church or "Francis Church". I recommend you study catechesis more. I take a weekly catechism at my parish with very knowledgeable orthodox priests. Here's what I was taught there - we enter the Church at Baptism however once we grow up if we reject the Church culpably, we are in heresy. And those little children and others who are invincibly ignorant who are baptised yet not Catholic, their link to the Church is sort of hidden, and there's danger of them rejecting the truth when they are older. It does matter being Catholic. There's only one Church and its visible. Its not an invisible organisation. Its visible and those who were baptised reject the truth and become heretics when they culpably reject the Church. We just can't judge how culpable someone is. So if I understood correctly that's sort of how it is... But even though baptism is the way to enter the Church, it doesn't mean its some unstructured invisible organisation. Its structured and visible and its the Catholic Church... We just don't call people heretics if they never chose it and are infants baptized somewhere else, since valid baptism makes someone in the Church. But if they later believe heresies... Regarding being priests. This is how it was explained to me... The body expresses the soul. So the Body of Christ - the Church - expresses Him. He acts through it. The ministerial priesthood does this and we need it to be visible just as the Body is visible. We don't all have ministerial priesthood, only ordained priests. Protestants make everything invisible and that's not how the Body of Christ works. As for the whore of Babylon stuff... The Pope and the Church would never turn into that. Even if theres an infiltration there would still be the truth in the actual Church. 20 minutes ago, Josh said:
Gladius Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 21 minutes ago, Josh said: 4 minutes ago, MarysLittleFlower said: I recommend you study catechesis more. Thank you. Good advice. I am deficient in more ways than I care to think about. But, anyone can look at the Catholic Church and see that it was "instituted" by Christ. I'm pretty sure that makes the Church an institution.
MarysLittleFlower Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 14 minutes ago, Gladius said: That is a Protestant view of the Church. What do you mean? You quoted me, but what I said is not the Protestant view. I'm saying that the Church is Catholic, visible, and not an institution.
Gladius Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 26 minutes ago, Josh said: Just now, MarysLittleFlower said: What do you mean? You quoted me, but what I said is not the Protestant view. I'm saying that the Church is Catholic, visible, and not an institution. Each individual believer who has faith in Christ makes up the Church. The Bible says we are Priest. And as far as the Catholic Church not being the whore of Babylon tons of people disagree with you. @Gladius is right in this thread telling me I have "quite the dilemma" I personally don't think this is the case or I wouldn't remain Catholic. At the same time I'm not 100 percent sure. Revelations warns us about this. I'm a little confused with the Catholic Churches teaching on Islam. There's Catholics with active ministries saying similar things negative about the current Church or "Francis Church". What you say may be true, but the Church is an institution as well.
Guest Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 3 minutes ago, Gladius said: Thank you. Good advice. I am deficient in more ways than I care to think about. But, anyone can look at the Catholic Church and see that it was "instituted" by Christ. I'm pretty sure that makes the Church an institution. Why are you telling to me to come out of her then?
MarysLittleFlower Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 14 minutes ago, Josh said: Tldr Believers in Christ make up the Church on Earth. Further the Bible tells us we're Priest and Saints through our faith in Christ. There's a lot of things I don't like about Protestantism but there's tons and tons and tons and tons of Christians who love Jesus who don't identify as Catholic. They're saved by grace through their faith in Christ not by any works less they be tempted to boast. I'm not here to discuss Protestants. What I'm here discuss is all these Catholics now a days echoing the same things Protestants have been saying about the Catholic Church being the whore of Babylon. I don't think that's the case but obviously @Gladius does. He's telling me to come out of her. You are not interpreting those verses in a Catholic way Josh. I think some catechesis could help you, its helped me. There's a priesthood we all share but there's also the ordained priesthood that we don't all share. I described about the Church. We are not saved by faith alone and having works doesn't mean we think we "earn" it. Neither is salvation a moment in the past and that's it. We need to interpret Scripture with the Church not individually. When I was Protestant I tried to love Jesus I was also wrong about many things.
Guest Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) I'm Catholic right now so I agree with what the Catholic Church teaches about faith and works. Edited December 24, 2015 by Guest
MarysLittleFlower Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 7 minutes ago, Gladius said: Thank you. Good advice. I am deficient in more ways than I care to think about. But, anyone can look at the Catholic Church and see that it was "instituted" by Christ. I'm pretty sure that makes the Church an institution. What I meant by institution is a human organisation. That is how Protestants see the Church. That's not what it is.
Guest Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Come on Gladius answer my ******** question!!!!!!!
MarysLittleFlower Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Gladius- let me say it again. The Church was instituted by Christ but its not some human organisation like the YMCA. That's what I meant by institution. I'm mostly repeating what I learned in my catechism here. It was by no means modernist. The Church is visible. But its not a human organisation. It has a human component but it has a Divine component. It exists as Christ's Body.. That is not Protestant.
Gladius Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 13 minutes ago, MarysLittleFlower said: Gladius- let me say it again. The Church was instituted by Christ but its not some human organisation like the YMCA. That's what I meant by institution. I'm mostly repeating what I learned in my catechism here. It was by no means modernist. The Church is visible. But its not a human organisation. It has a human component but it has a Divine component. It exists as Christ's Body.. That is not Protestant. I misunderstood you.
MarysLittleFlower Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 3 minutes ago, Josh said: Come on Gladius answer my ******** question!!!!!!! Maybe Gladius means that the Church today is infected by modernism. What I would say is that even though in some ways it has been infiltrated or affected, the Pope is still valid and the Sacraments are valid and its still the Church. Its not some empty thing.. Its suffering in ways but its still the Church. We need to stay faithful to tradition and authentic Church teaching but we are already in the Church by being Catholic. We just need to be orthodox not modernist / liberal Catholics. But the Papacy has not been dissolved. Regarding the new Mass - I prefer the TLM but the NO is valid as a Mass and has the Sacraments. I'd still go to the TLM if I have a choice. But its not ceased to be a Mass.. Even if there are things that happen that are less reverent in a given parish. I'm not downplaying the seriousness of that but I just mean the Church is still the Church. I can say that as a traditionalist. We should not follow new unorthodox or modernist trends that's all. But if you're Catholic you're in the true Church. I don't know if ever in the future there would be some schism and then only one side would have the authority and the Sacraments. But now, we are all together, faithful and unfaithful, we just need to follow the doctrines and be the faithful Catholics.
Gladius Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 14 minutes ago, Josh said: Come on Gladius answer my ******** question!!!!!!! Could you restate it, please.
MarysLittleFlower Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 5 minutes ago, Gladius said: I misunderstood you. That's ok, I wasn't precise enough
MarysLittleFlower Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 29 minutes ago, Josh said: Why are you telling to me to come out of her then? Gladius I think this was Josh's question, as a response to you saying that the Church was instituted by Christ
Gladius Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 50 minutes ago, Josh said: Why are you telling to me to come out of her then? I'm saying, stay in the Catholic Church, but make sure the Catholic Church you stay in, teaches what the Church has taught for 2000 years and not some new, strange doctrines. Go to this website and see the dogmas that the Catholic Church, founded by Jesus Christ, in 33 AD, has always taught: theworkofgod.org/dogmas
Guest Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) 3 hours ago, Gladius said: I'm saying, stay in the Catholic Church, but make sure the Catholic Church you stay in, teaches what the Church has taught for 2000 years and not some new, strange doctrines. Go to this website and see the dogmas that the Catholic Church, founded by Jesus Christ, in 33 AD, has always taught: theworkofgod.org/dogmas According to you I'm not in the true Catholic Church right? Edited December 24, 2015 by Guest
MarysLittleFlower Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 I disagree about staying home. The Sunday obligation is dispensed if there's no Mass. If there is a Catholic Mass that is valid we are obliged to go there. The Novus Ordo is Sacramentally valid. I'd always choose the TLM if I have a choice. But since the NO is valid, I don't think that gives me an option to stay home. I agree with the rest
MarysLittleFlower Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 We can also go to an Eastern Catholic rite too.
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