Dear Father: Please Stop It

[enitharmon]

George Weigel, in First Things:
 

In all the sixteen documents of the Second Vatican Council, is there any prescription more regularly violated than General Norm 22.3 of the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy? Which, in case you’ve forgotten, teaches that “no . . . person, not even a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.”

If you’re a daily Mass attendant, the odds are that you hear that norm violated a dozen times a week. Sunday Mass people typically hear it violated two or three times a week, at least. Auto-editing or flat-out rewriting the prescribed text of the Mass is virtually epidemic among priests who attended seminary in the late Sixties, Seventies, or early Eighties; it’s less obvious among the younger clergy. But whether indulged by old, middle-aged, or young, it’s obnoxious and it’s an obstacle to prayer.

Read the entire article here: http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2016/01/dear-father-please-stop-it

Edited January 17, 2016 by enitharmon

[PhuturePriest]

Perhaps my diocese and the parishes around the country I've gone to are just that great, but never in my life have I seen a priest change the words of the liturgy.

[truthfinder]

28 minutes ago, PhuturePriest said:

Perhaps my diocese and the parishes around the country I've gone to are just that great, but never in my life have I seen a priest change the words of the liturgy.

Well then you're pretty darn lucky. My most memorable one is a priest who brought his own printed pamphlet with a eucharistic prayer I'm likely never to hear replicated. 

[beatitude]

I've never had a priest who changed the liturgical text either. I've been at a Mass where the priest passed the ciborium round like it was a popcorn plate for everyone to help themselves (I would rather have had changes to the text than that), and a Mass where the priest started to deliver the notices about upcoming parish events as he was cleaning the sacred vessels, but that's it. Two bad incidents in twenty-eight years of being alive is pretty good going, but I agree with the blog post: priests need to recognise that ad hoc improvising in the middle of prayer doesn't achieve whatever they're trying to achieve.

[PhuturePriest]

11 minutes ago, beatitude said:

I've never had a priest who changed the liturgical text either. I've been at a Mass where the priest passed the ciborium round like it was a popcorn plate for everyone to help themselves (I would rather have had changes to the text than that), and a Mass where the priest started to deliver the notices about upcoming parish events as he was cleaning the sacred vessels, but that's it. Two bad incidents in twenty-eight years of being alive is pretty good going, but I agree with the blog post: priests need to recognise that ad hoc improvising in the middle of prayer doesn't achieve whatever they're trying to achieve.

I've been to Mass repeatedly with a priest who changed the words of the Creed (including "...and became man" into "...and became human"), but as for the liturgy itself I've never seen the words changed.

[CatherineM]

Never heard it happen either with the exception of a few mistakes when the new translation was first being used, but that's understandable. 

[Nihil Obstat]

38 minutes ago, PhuturePriest said:

I've been to Mass repeatedly with a priest who changed the words of the Creed (including "...and became man" into "...and became human"), but as for the liturgy itself I've never seen the words changed.

That is still part of the liturgy.

[PhuturePriest]

18 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

That is still part of the liturgy.

My impression from the article was that it was referring more to things like the Eucharistic prayer, which I've heard from others they've seen priests modify.

[BigJon16]

My pastor back home added a "family prayer" right after the congregation receives communion, before the Prayer after Communion, once everyone is back in their pews and the Eucharist is reposed. I guess that technically violates GN 22.3, but I personally think it's aight. He also has gotten the whole parish in the habit of praying thanksgiving after Mass together, after the procession out, but technically that's outside the liturgy and the Mass, so it actually is aight.

 

Yes, is it technically against the GN to add such a prayer into the liturgy, but I think it's done quite tastefully and reverently. Everything else, though--he'll even tell you--is strictly "do the red, say the black." He's not a liturgist, but he certainly isn't a whacko.

 

[veritasluxmea]

I've never had a problem with it either- according to my parents to was much more common in our diocese in the 90's. But I don't remember that. Nowadays I usually go to parishes with a reputation for being more orthodox and faithful and it's never been an issue. 

Actually this did happen to me the other day. With my work schedule it can be tough to fit in daily mass, so sometimes I can't make mass at my usual church and cut up north to this teeny, barely limping along parish with a priest who's a "certain age." He's all right and nice to me, but this past week he had another priest covering his daily mass because he was away. This priest is much older and retired, but I never had any issues with the other guy so I didn't expect to have any with him.

So mass is going on like usual- just me and five other older women (I counted). We get to the Eucharistic prayer, and the guy says something totally different. I don't have the prayer memorized so I'm standing there trying to figure out why the prayer sounds off, when the priest looks up and says, "Now I am saying something different but it's all right, Jesus understands what I'm saying."  I thought about leaving but just decided to do nothing. He said a lot of things differently, and when he raised the bread said something like, "Do this to remember me" and when he raised the cup said something different, like "So you will remember me." 

So I go up to receive because I figure it's still valid. I prefer to receive on the tongue and sometimes priests who are loose can have an issue with that. So I give it my best shot- I won't receive on the hands unless absolutely necessary- I walk up and immediately open my mouth with my hands tucked on my chest. He pauses, gives me the Eucharist on my tongue, and loudly says for me "Amen." 

Ok... so when I don't say Amen that's a problem to be corrected... but when you ad lib the prayers that's fine cause Jesus understands. Ok. That makes sense. Talk about double standards. So that's my crazy story from last week! 

[BG45]

The only times I ever encountered this were when I was dating a woman in Philadelphia, and every Mass I went to in that archdiocese was liturgically lacking.

[Nihil Obstat]

I have encountered several priests who, even several years on, continue to say "for all". Luckily I have found a way to rarely encounter such shenanigans.

[bardegaulois]

I got so tired of this and all the irreverences I've encountered at every Mass within an hour's drive of me that I resolved only to hear the TLM save in those grave cases in which I couldn't travel that far for a holy day of obligation. Holy Mass should not be a near occasion of sin.

[Nihil Obstat]

10 minutes ago, bardegaulois said:

I got so tired of this and all the irreverences I've encountered at every Mass within an hour's drive of me that I resolved only to hear the TLM save in those grave cases in which I couldn't travel that far for a holy day of obligation. Holy Mass should not be a near occasion of sin.

I hear you, brother.

[PhuturePriest]

52 minutes ago, bardegaulois said:

I got so tired of this and all the irreverences I've encountered at every Mass within an hour's drive of me that I resolved only to hear the TLM save in those grave cases in which I couldn't travel that far for a holy day of obligation. Holy Mass should not be a near occasion of sin.

Why would Holy Mass be a near occasion of sin?

[truthfinder]

4 minutes ago, PhuturePriest said:

Why would Holy Mass be a near occasion of sin?

Because the abuse causes anger (and sometimes lead to such things as calumny, detraction, gossip, and revenge plots...)

Edit: pride, lots of pride

Edited January 18, 2016 by truthfinder

[Credo in Deum]

1 hour ago, bardegaulois said:

I got so tired of this and all the irreverences I've encountered at every Mass within an hour's drive of me that I resolved only to hear the TLM save in those grave cases in which I couldn't travel that far for a holy day of obligation. Holy Mass should not be a near occasion of sin.

Same here, broseph.  When I went to the EF an OF parishioner asked my why do I like the EF? I told him I like both, however, the EF consitantly provides me with a Mass that best adheres to the desires of Vatican II and the Holy Fathers. In the EF Latin has pride of place, Gregorian Chant has pride of place, etc. Plus the priests never insert their own style into the liturgy.  I've rarely seen OF masses do this and so to ensure I never have to worry about playing reverence roulette, I consitantly attend the EF.

 

Edited January 18, 2016 by Credo in Deum

[PhuturePriest]

5 minutes ago, truthfinder said:

Because the abuse causes anger (and sometimes lead to such things as calumny, detraction, gossip, and revenge plots...)

Edit: pride, lots of pride

That really was the main issue for me when I was becoming obsessed with liturgy. I think traditionalists run a risk of becoming snobbish and (as you say) prideful when it comes to liturgy. At least that was my experience, anyway. When I focused less on the specifics of the Liturgy and stopped watching everything Father and the altar boys did like an inquisitor, I became much more prayerful in the Mass. My personal motto is to just try and be grateful to God for the Mass, no matter what form, no matter how beautiful, and no matter how irreverent. An irreverent Mass still gives me the gift of praying in the presence of angels and receiving God himself. 

[truthfinder]

Just now, PhuturePriest said:

That really was the main issue for me when I was becoming obsessed with liturgy. I think traditionalists run a risk of becoming snobbish and (as you say) prideful when it comes to liturgy. At least that was my experience, anyway. When I focused less on the specifics of the Liturgy and stopped watching everything Father and the altar boys did like an inquisitor, I became much more prayerful in the Mass. My personal motto is to just try and be grateful to God for the Mass, no matter what form, no matter how beautiful, and no matter how irreverent. An irreverent Mass still gives me the gift of praying in the presence of angels and receiving God himself. 

See, in attending the EF now for a couple of years, I am much calmer after Sunday Mass.  I don't stew about what was going on, what Fr. did wrong, etc. (I might notice when one of the altar boys faceplants, or one of the local characters wanders in). But that's also primarily because I know that it's being done right and the soothing rhythm of it all.  I just can't find that in the OF, even when it's done right (even when it is an entirely Latin OF - yes, I've experienced one of those unicorns). So, when I do go to an OF, particularly one which I have experienced weird things in the past, I have a tendency to close my eyes and know that next week I'll be back to my own parish.

But, to the topic at hand, the priest still does not have a right to make up whatever he wants, OF or EF.  

[PhuturePriest]

6 minutes ago, truthfinder said:

See, in attending the EF now for a couple of years, I am much calmer after Sunday Mass.  I don't stew about what was going on, what Fr. did wrong, etc. (I might notice when one of the altar boys faceplants, or one of the local characters wanders in). But that's also primarily because I know that it's being done right and the soothing rhythm of it all.  I just can't find that in the OF, even when it's done right (even when it is an entirely Latin OF - yes, I've experienced one of those unicorns). So, when I do go to an OF, particularly one which I have experienced weird things in the past, I have a tendency to close my eyes and know that next week I'll be back to my own parish.

But, to the topic at hand, the priest still does not have a right to make up whatever he wants, OF or EF.  

I can certainly respect that. I think ultimately it comes down to spirituality and what some are more drawn to. On a much smaller scale, take something like litanies. I absolutely *loathe* litanies. No matter how hard I try, the moment a litany begins my mind decides to wander off and never returns until the litany is over. However, I do know some who love litanies and find them very beautiful and resonant. Some would argue otherwise, but I think the same principle applies for the forms of the Mass.

But yes. The topic at hand is perhaps important to focus on.

Edited January 18, 2016 by PhuturePriest