Help, I am living in doubt and confusion

[Mary Catherine]

Dear sisters in the forum,

As some of you may already know, my SD has some concern about the congregation I am interested in. Well, now it seems just a minor problem as compared to the problems in me.

Now he just said I am not converted and can't follow the sisters' way, and I really don't know what it means. Somehow I know I am very bad, but can Gog give me a change to become good?

It's Easter now, and I am very sad. Now my SD is home in Poland for preparing for WYD, and then he will be Akita Japan, and then he will be back to  meet me. 

Frankly I now truly doubt if I have a vocation or not, I have been waiting for it for at least 5 years, and my age would pass the age limit for any congregation. If it's God's will, why I am always postponed regarding the entering? If it's not God's will, why I haven't given up yet? I really desire it, but seems it's so hard to get it. It's all depressing and confusing.

Appreciate your prayers for me so that I can stay sober and hear His voice, many thanks.

[Benedictus]

I would advise gaining clarity on what your SD said. Maybe they didn't intend it the way you heard it? Did they direct you to explore another type of life instead? Probe them about it, not to only seek their opinion, but for interior reflection and clarity. Does what they're saying make sense to you after some more discernment, to those close to you, to the sisters and others?  Would others disagree and why?

I will say that this way of putting things by an SD seems slightly irregular to me though. They're not there to tell you what you should do or what God wants. I have always found them to be a facilitator, a mirror and guide. They will challenge you, test you and help break false notions (about God, others or self). Maybe this is where the issue has arisen?

Some SD's (although more usually vocations directors) will actually have a tactic of being passive, indifferent or even discouraging to see if a person has the correct resolve and motivation to perservere. Is the person only happy to continue when they receive a kindness and comforts?

You needs Gods grace in this situation and to carry your cross. Are you willing to listen to the possibility another type of life is Gods desire for you? If not, then are you resolved in your testing of a specific call despite opposition or indifference? Are you willing to confront and deal with any weaknesses and false notions you have (or others hold about you)?

You have my prayers

 

 

 

 

[Maggyie]

I'm just going by what you've said but something seems to be wrong with your SD. What he's told you is extremely odd. Is there another priest you can speak with?

[bardegaulois]

6 hours ago, Mary Catherine said:

Dear sisters in the forum,

As some of you may already know, my SD has some concern about the congregation I am interested in. Well, now it seems just a minor problem as compared to the problems in me.

Now he just said I am not converted and can't follow the sisters' way, and I really don't know what it means. Somehow I know I am very bad, but can Gog give me a change to become good?

It's Easter now, and I am very sad. Now my SD is home in Poland for preparing for WYD, and then he will be Akita Japan, and then he will be back to  meet me. 

Frankly I now truly doubt if I have a vocation or not, I have been waiting for it for at least 5 years, and my age would pass the age limit for any congregation. If it's God's will, why I am always postponed regarding the entering? If it's not God's will, why I haven't given up yet? I really desire it, but seems it's so hard to get it. It's all depressing and confusing.

Appreciate your prayers for me so that I can stay sober and hear His voice, many thanks.

I'm generally not one to question the wisdom of a spiritual director, and so I won't in this case. The only thing I can truly advise is fervent prayer for his soul. That said, his words give me, and perhaps should give you, a few questions.

First of all, he does not believe that you are converted. What in your life might have him believe that? Considering that conversion is a lifelong process, it's difficult to say that any of us truly are, but if you were to lay out your life and look objectively at all aspects of it. Where are you not living the Gospel of Jesus Christ as well as you ought? Maybe the spiritual director has something in mind, and you of course have a right to ask him. If he would speak so bluntly with you, I'd think him somewhat morally obliged to explain his reasoning to you--and to advise you to greater conversion.

As far as your doubts go, well I understand that self-doubt can lead to a grave moral and spiritual paralysis, but the most important matter to advise in these situations is that there is only one absolutely wrong choice: not making a choice. Decision by indecision has likely crippled more eager and competent young souls than anything else, for it damns their potential and often leads to a life of resignation and often understated bitterness and self-loathing. I know this because I passed several years in that trap myself; however, it is never too late to escape from it, understanding that there is always a divinely blessed option to you. Honestly, I believe discernment culture all too often promotes this self-doubt and might damage many souls in the process.

The only way out of this is by actually making a choice, as difficult as that often is to do. It sounds as though you have decided to join a particular congregation and now you are wavering. Here's my question, though: are you just talking with a spiritual director about joining this community, or are you actually in touch with their vocations director and taking steps toward beginning a postulancy with them? Acts always surpass words; so have you taken action, or have you merely spoken about this?

Be assured of my prayers.

[Spem in alium]

I am just wondering, does the congregation know how interested you are in them (echoing the post above, are you in touch with their VD?) ? If so, have they expressed any concerns to you about your suitability for religious life? I'll pray for you and your SD.

[McM RSCJ]

From your previous posts, I think you are referring to your desire to join the two women who are hoping for a third so they can get some kind of go-ahead from the Bishop to form a new religious community. Right?

As you recall, some of us, along with your Director, highlighted some huge red flags we see in this idea.  And some of us also saw but huge red flags in your expressed conviction you must go along with what your Director says regardless.

From your previous posts, I admit I thought you were quite young, so I am surprised to read you say are over the age limit for any Religious Order.   Does this mean over 35?  Or over 50?  If you are over 35 and have no impediments like debt or dependents and if you still want to join these two women and they still want you to come, you can, of course, do so.  In the end, you are free to override the concerns of others, even the concerns of a Spiritual Director who may know you very well.  Whether or not that is wise is another question. 

At the end of your post, you ask for us to pray you can stay sober.  I am not sure whether by sober you mean "attentive" or whether you mean its usual sense of not being under the influence of alcohol or drugs.  If you are referring to a problem with substance abuse, then please focus first on medical and psychological treatment before pursuing religious life. 

[Gabriela]

6 hours ago, bardegaulois said:

discernment culture all too often promotes this self-doubt and might damage many souls in the process.

^TRUTH^

[Mary Catherine]

Dear MCM, no worries, I do not have any additions to drugs or alcohol. 

Perhaps both the congregation and my SD are bad enough? 

 

 

[Sister Leticia]

Dear MC

I recall all this came up in a recent thread, in which many of us made suggestions, and expressed concerns. I don't know what you felt about everything we said, how much you agreed or disagreed with us etc, but to me, reading your post, it feels as though you are still in the same place.

Maybe it would help to break this down, as I feel there are different issues, which are linked and overlapping, but can also be examined and dealt with separately.

1. You say you've been waiting for 5 years to enter religious life. Is this because of something like illness, or being a convert? Is there still something ongoing which still needs healing? - as MMcM asked, was this behind your use of the word "sober"? Or do you believe the only thing preventing you from moving forward is the concerns raised by your SD?

2. You feel called to join a new community consisting of 2 women, who, as I recall, are searching for an identity and mission within their local church. Your SD and several people here have expressed concerns about this community. How do you feel about what we have said? Has anything anyone has said made you look anew at the community and your sense of feeling called to them?

You haven't said what exactly attracts you to them, whether it's a desire to be part of something new, or they're simply the only community you've visited or what. If they are the only community you've visited then I would urge you to start looking at a few others. It can be very tempting, on one's first-ever visit anywhere, to think "this is it": and maybe it is "it", but the best way to find out is to visit a few other places - and visit them with an open heart and mind, not in order to compare. If you return to the first community you will do so with a deeper sense of call and new clarity - and if you discover you are actually called elsewhere, then that's wonderful!

I would add: I only know you through what you post here, but my impression of you if of great anxiety and insecurity. This is not ideal for many things - but it's especially not ideal for wanting to join a group which is itself likely to be experiencing great anxiety and insecurity due to its fragility and precarious situation.

3. Your SD says you're not yet "converted" - this echoes what you said in your previous thread. We commented on this, asked questions, raised concerns, especially about whether your SD was telling whether or not you could enter, and what he meant by you being or not being "converted". Please do re-read and reflect on some of the concerns expressed there.

4. Your SD is away for quite a time, and you are feeling confused and anxious. This could be a good opportunity to approach someone else - preferably someone trained in SD - and ask them for help with your discernment and confusion. Please try and find a trained SD. Not all priests, brothers and sisters are trained in SD, and if their only model is of having had a strict novice director or confessor, then that's the model they will replicate. It might work for some people, but it can break others, especially if they're already liable to self-doubt or scruples.

With prayers

[Mary Catherine]

Dear Sr. Leticia, you are correct when saying that I am having great anxiety and insecurity. Yes, that's me, and that's part of my weakness. I am anxious to get a clear answer, and the answer is always "waiting". I would rather receive a "No", and this can make me more comfortable. You may know that for a person like me it would be torturing, I owe it partially to my age. If I am just 25 or something, I wouldn't be so anxious, but will just wait for several years until my faith becomes mature.

Why this congregation attracts me? First of all, I have been waiting for it to be open for 3 years. Frankly speaking, before I went to visit them, I did not have much expectation on them, however, when I had great peace while staying with them. People all say they are not stablised, even not a religious congregation yet, but I do think they are a real religious congregation who has just started. I had spent one year as an aspirant with Pink Sisters, so I know what kind of life it is.

Well, I do think peace is a sign. But I am still not sure yet. I just feel I am very comfortable with them, I have much in common with them, and when I am with the two sisters, I do not have to cheat or veil myself. I feel everything is very natural and so nice, I feel quite free and deeply rest in the heat of God when I stayed in the cell and I do not have to disguise or pretend or cheat while taking to the two sisters.

It's not that I didn't look at other congregation, however, each time when I tried to approach sisters who are active religious, however, when I stayed with them for a while, for some I know I was not sincere to them because I have no real interest in their congregation. Or else, I just know it for sure that I can't do the things they are doing.

I know I am very bad, but today I really feel very happy because a religious sister gave me very good counsel, and I will try to follow your advice. It's not that I don't want to ask my SD why he thinks I am not converted yet, but I am much afraid to hear what he will say about me, because his words may give me a heavy blow so that I will completely lose hope.

Anyway, thank you for your kind prayers. I feel really warm inside on this forum, and it is really my favorite.

 

[Gabriela]

9 hours ago, Mary Catherine said:

Dear Sr. Leticia, you are correct when saying that I am having great anxiety and insecurity. Yes, that's me, and that's part of my weakness. I am anxious to get a clear answer, and the answer is always "waiting". I would rather receive a "No", and this can make me more comfortable. You may know that for a person like me it would be torturing, I owe it partially to my age. If I am just 25 or something, I wouldn't be so anxious, but will just wait for several years until my faith becomes mature.

Why this congregation attracts me? First of all, I have been waiting for it to be open for 3 years. Frankly speaking, before I went to visit them, I did not have much expectation on them, however, when I had great peace while staying with them. People all say they are not stablised, even not a religious congregation yet, but I do think they are a real religious congregation who has just started. I had spent one year as an aspirant with Pink Sisters, so I know what kind of life it is.

Well, I do think peace is a sign. But I am still not sure yet. I just feel I am very comfortable with them, I have much in common with them, and when I am with the two sisters, I do not have to cheat or veil myself. I feel everything is very natural and so nice, I feel quite free and deeply rest in the heat of God when I stayed in the cell and I do not have to disguise or pretend or cheat while taking to the two sisters.

It's not that I didn't look at other congregation, however, each time when I tried to approach sisters who are active religious, however, when I stayed with them for a while, for some I know I was not sincere to them because I have no real interest in their congregation. Or else, I just know it for sure that I can't do the things they are doing.

I know I am very bad, but today I really feel very happy because a religious sister gave me very good counsel, and I will try to follow your advice. It's not that I don't want to ask my SD why he thinks I am not converted yet, but I am much afraid to hear what he will say about me, because his words may give me a heavy blow so that I will completely lose hope.

Anyway, thank you for your kind prayers. I feel really warm inside on this forum, and it is really my favorite.

 

Mary Catherine, I am praying for you, and this post does help a lot. I would second Sister's advice to contact someone else for some spiritual direction. Is the sister you spoke with today qualified to give it? If so, perhaps reach out to her to ask for more contact?

[Mary Catherine]

Well sisters, after thoughtful consideration, I have decided to wait until my SD to come back.

I really appreciate your advices, but please understand I am really a special case, and no one here acutally knows me in the real world.

Thank you for your prayers as well, and I think I should put all my trust in God to see his plan on me.