Orlando Shooting

[McM RSCJ]

Josh, have you studied Church documents on the respect and reverence Catholics ought to have for Islam?

We worship the same One Holy God.

Who--or what Catholic authorities--are telling you differently?

Your posts continue to suggest that not only do you think Islam is Satanic, but that this is Catholic teaching.  It is NOT.  Full stop.

who is feeding you this poison?

[Socrates]

Catholics ought not have respect or reverence for Islam or any other false religion.

The false religion of Islam explicitly denies fundamental central truths of Christ, and much of its spread involved forcibly converting Christians.  The One Holy God is not divided against Himself.

However, we ought to respect Muslim people, just as we should respect all people.  (Yes, there is a difference.)  We should pray for their conversion to Christ.

Sadly, religious indifferentism (look it up) seems to be rampant in the Church today.

[Anomaly]

What kind of response do you think you will get from people if you completely disrespect their religion?  You don't have to agree it's equal or as good as your religion, but you can acknowledge and respect what principles you may share in common, such as respecting people, respecting family, respecting the poor and being charitable.  Worry about what's unacceptable when you can respect each other's as neighbors, not disrespectful enumerated.  Otherwise it's just two hateful idiots throwing disrespect at each other until both are convinced there is no room for a bit of empathy.  

[Socrates]

I didn't say Catholics should needlessly actively disrespect false religions.  (For instance, I think we can all agree that likely no good will come from running around in front of Muslims mocking their "prophet" Mohammed.)  Nor should we deny basic common human decency and shared human values.  This is all part of prudence and respect for persons.

This does not mean Catholics should have actual reverence for the false teachings of Mohammedism itself.  For a believing Christian to give reverence to a religion contrary and opposed to Christian faith is wrong and blasphemous.  (Silly as the whole controversy might be to an atheist.)

I can respect Anomaly as a person without giving reverence to his atheistic ideas.

Again, some of the posts by Catholics here on this topic definitely smack of religious indifferentism.

[PhuturePriest]

7 hours ago, Socrates said:

I didn't say Catholics should needlessly actively disrespect false religions.  (For instance, I think we can all agree that likely no good will come from running around in front of Muslims mocking their "prophet" Mohammed.)  Nor should we deny basic common human decency and shared human values.  This is all part of prudence and respect for persons.

This does not mean Catholics should have actual reverence for the false teachings of Mohammedism itself.  For a believing Christian to give reverence to a religion contrary and opposed to Christian faith is wrong and blasphemous.  (Silly as the whole controversy might be to an atheist.)

I can respect Anomaly as a person without giving reverence to his atheistic ideas.

Again, some of the posts by Catholics here on this topic definitely smack of religious indifferentism.

I appreciate your attempt to make this more balanced. Many (myself definitely included) are susceptible to becoming a little over-eager in the ideals of the times, which currently means trying to foster respect and love among all peoples. This is certainly a good thing in and of itself. However, as you say, a balance must be struck, and it is imperative that we don't make the mistake of reverencing bad ideas in the act of respecting good persons. We should strive to love the person in a holistic way while also objectively viewing their beliefs in light of the Church, lauding that which is good and rejecting that which is bad -- all in charity and respect.

[<3 PopeFrancis]

On 6/13/2016 at 9:58 AM, vee said:

what if the shooter turned out to be a gay muslim.

Imagine that!

 

[little2add]

What I don't understand is how or why did the  swat team wait 4 hours before going in and ending the  massacre 

I find this strange considering that some of the innocent must have bled to death during the four hour stand off

 

[Anomaly]

2 hours ago, little2add said:

What I don't understand is how or why did the  swat team wait 4 hours before going in and ending the  massacre 

I find this strange considering that some of the innocent must have bled to death during the four hour stand off

 

Listened to a local(Tampa) radio station interviewing a SWAT expert and reading in the paper, this was discussed at great extent.   Omar called into 911 and also told negotiators that he had explosives. They knew there was wounded and others hiding /trapped inside.   They did not want to make him set them off, killing them all.  

Thsnks to a few brave souls that would text what they knew of his location inside, police would go in and help some out.   Eventually they were able to discern he probably did not have explosives and they broke in. They people texting were incredibly brave as Omar would shoot to kill anyone he thought was calling.  

The girl in the bathroom was under people who were wounded or dead and was shot yet again when he was killing wounded or those trying to call.  

The police protocol was to remain a good distance away in case of explosives, but many risked their lives getting people out when they thought they could do it without being seen.   Lots of brave people.  

[little2add]

the swat team has body armor, robots, bomb sniffing detection equipment.  they should not have waited.

[Anomaly]

People trapped in there, hiding in closets and bathrooms didn't have body armor.   A bomb could have killed them all.  Considering police were sneaking in without armor (as verified by victims) I'm pretty sure the concern was for the safety of the citizens, not the officers.  

[little2add]

not much of a hostage rescue, for a group of elite police marksmen who specialize in high-risk tasks such as hostage rescue.

 

[LittleWaySoul]

Are we really arguing about this?

[PhuturePriest]

2 hours ago, LittleWaySoul said:

Are we really arguing about this?

Catholics are nothing if not wannabe inquisitors.

[<3 PopeFrancis]

All religions that are not Jesus' are not God; however, like it or not Muslims are our brothers through Abraham.  Let's be less like Sarah and love them like Abraham's children.  

Perhaps we will be able to have peace; then move on so we can prepare for the next heresy 

[Guest]

Just now, <3 PopeFrancis said:

All religions that are not Jesus' are not God; however, like it or not Muslims are our brothers through Abraham.  

1 John 2:22 ►

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

 

 

Are you sure about that?

[PhuturePriest]

19 minutes ago, Josh said:

1 John 2:22 ►

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

 

 

Are you sure about that?

There's nothing in that which implies or states those who reject Christ are no longer our brothers.

I think you're forgetting many Muslims are Muslim simply because that's what they were raised with, and everything they know about Christianity is through inaccurate claims by those who raised and taught them, who were given those same inaccurate understandings through those who raised and taught them, and so on. We need to try and have understanding and mercy, even towards those who persecute and kill us -- especially for them, I would argue.

[<3 PopeFrancis]

On 7/27/2016 at 0:54 AM, PhuturePriest said:

...many Muslims are Muslim simply because that's what they were raised with, and everything they know about Christianity is through inaccurate claims...

I agree.  

Something I have noticed about the Muslims is that if they do not downright dislike (which is not a sin) Christians they are actually merciful to Christians.  They see the Christian as a hypocrite to our own beliefs.  

I cannot blame them.  As with the Jews, they are born and raised in their culture.  However, they are faithful to what they believe.  What they believe is incorrect however, they are raised that this is the law and are faithful to it  to the extent of "crusade".    This seems to be the underlying cause of their discontent towards Christians.  Christians will say one thing and do the opposite, as they see it.  The general nation of our Jewish siblings in faith justify actions in their "Talmud" as being children of Israel.  (My feeling is Christians are born again by the Holy Spirit and not "...from their mother's womb...").

This Christianity festers confusion and ultimately hatred towards their adopted culture.  Also, they realize the USA is founded on Christianity.  As PhuturePriest mentions, they are raised in an Islamic "nation" and not only culture; however, though founded on Christianity, it is not a Christian nation in the Islamic State sense.  Therefore the Muslims from Islamic States see giving in to unnatural inclinations toward homosexuality as breaking the law - which, in fact, breaks the natural law.

 

[<3 PopeFrancis]

On 7/27/2016 at 0:32 AM, Josh said:

Are you sure about that?

No.

Our Lady of Fatima appears on a crescent moon - the symbol of Muslim.  The woman clothed in the sun with the moon under her feet - paraphrasing -  shall crush the head of the serpent.  To me this would be an indication to what Josh said.

Incidentally, Fatima is the daughter of Mohammed  which to me indicates a kind of mercy towards the Muslim people which consists of families like us.  That is why I feel merciful towards them as they are being driven out of their homes in the Middle East with mothers with their babies and children on the Gaza Strip with the fathers standing by powerless. It is very painful to see.   

However,  Our Lady of Fatima says "In the End My Immaculate Heart will Triumph"

God love us all.

[Guest]

[Guest]

"For the first time during a mass in Italy a  verse of the Koran was sung from the altar. It happened in the Church of Santa Maria in Trastevere during the ceremony in memory of the priest of Rouen killed by terrorists of Isis. During the ceremony, while Catholics recited the creed, a delegate of the mosque of al-Azhar University in Cairo softly repeated an Islamic prayer asking for peace."

http://www.lastampa.it/2016/07/31/multimedia/italia/cronache/santa-maria-in-trastevere-cantato-per-la-prima-volta-versetto-del-corano-1HfVWSbmDRozLVmOsmmAtN/pagina.html

Edited August 2, 2016 by Guest