Entering a community with a lot of old sisters

[Quasar]

On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 7:32 PM, Totally Franciscan said:

I entered a Carmelite monastery when I was 28.  All the other fifteen sisters were at least twenty years older than I, most much more so.  I can say I actually never gave the age difference a thought.  I was one of them, and they treated me as a sister, not a grand daughter.  There was much wisdom to learn from these older sisters, and I loved each and every one.  They were an example to me of how to live out the vows of poverty, chastity, and especially obedience.  They were amazing!  Unfortunately, the bishop suppressed the order.  Those in solemn vows were given the choice of returning to lay life with family members or going to other communities.  Those too old to enter another community or those with no family were placed in a Catholic nursing home, and the diocese paid all their expenses until death.  

Totally Franciscan -

I'm so sorry to hear that this lovely community was suppressed.   If you don't mind sharing,did you transfer to another community after this?

[Totally Franciscan]

5 hours ago, Quasar said:

Totally Franciscan -

I'm so sorry to hear that this lovely community was suppressed.   If you don't mind sharing,did you transfer to another community after this?

Thank you for asking Quasar!  No, I didn't transfer to another community; I wish I had.  All my life, I have thought that God was calling me to religious life.  When I was 18, I entered a teaching order and loved the life very much, but I became ill due to food allergies and left - probably the greatest regret of my life.  Ten years later, I was accepted into this Carmelite community, but things were not as they should have been, and the bishop suppressed the order.  Life happened, and then became too old to be accepted into any community.  Well, God does have mysterious ways!  Perhaps religious life was more my will than His.  Blessings on your journey Quasar!

[NadaTeTurbe]

1 hour ago, Totally Franciscan said:

Thank you for asking Quasar!  No, I didn't transfer to another community; I wish I had.  All my life, I have thought that God was calling me to religious life.  When I was 18, I entered a teaching order and loved the life very much, but I became ill due to food allergies and left - probably the greatest regret of my life.  Ten years later, I was accepted into this Carmelite community, but things were not as they should have been, and the bishop suppressed the order.  Life happened, and then became too old to be accepted into any community.  Well, God does have mysterious ways!  Perhaps religious life was more my will than His.  Blessings on your journey Quasar!

You can still consider Secular Institute. You are consecrated by the evangelicals counsels, but living in the world. There is a carmelite Secular Institute called "Notre Dame de Vie" (OUr Lady of Life). It was founded by (future blessed !) Marie-Eugène de l'Enfant Jésus, who wrote an amazing book called "I want to see God". Anway, it's refreshing to see with how much peace you take your journey in and out religious life. Keep trusting in God and blessings  

[Quasar]

10 hours ago, Totally Franciscan said:

Thank you for asking Quasar!  No, I didn't transfer to another community; I wish I had.  All my life, I have thought that God was calling me to religious life.  When I was 18, I entered a teaching order and loved the life very much, but I became ill due to food allergies and left - probably the greatest regret of my life.  Ten years later, I was accepted into this Carmelite community, but things were not as they should have been, and the bishop suppressed the order.  Life happened, and then became too old to be accepted into any community.  Well, God does have mysterious ways!  Perhaps religious life was more my will than His.  Blessings on your journey Quasar!

Totally Franciscan,

 

Thank you for sharing your story.  I admire your courage in answering God's call not once, but twice!  I imagine there is much wisdom you gleaned from your time spent in religious life.  Thanks for your example of courage and grace. 

 

[Hna.Caridad]

“About 30 years ago, when a good friend entered religious life, she had 3 other novices with her. In the next few years another 4 women entered. So it all looked very healthy and hopeful. But by the time she made her final vows all bar one of those 7 women had left! - and nobody else had entered and stayed. Since then they've had a few entrants, but only 2 more have made final vows, so their average age has definitely increased, and their numbers have decreased as people have also died.”

This is very similar to what happened to me.  It’s not as scary as it sounds—especially since I made my vows to God and God continues to be faithful to me (I try to reciprocate as best I can!)

One thing that I’ve noticed over the last 10 years or so is that the “growing” communities (with the exception of just a few) are also the “newer” communities—those who were founded after Vatican II and who, with the exception of their foundresses, have almost no Sisters in their 70’s and practically none in their 80’s, 90’s, or over 100.

I certainly understand that youth attracts youth and that it can be a bit intimidating to enter a congregation that is made up almost entirely of “older” Sisters (and most congregations founded prior to Vatican II in the U.S. & Europe do have a lot of older Sisters because those congregations were the ones that were around to accept the huge entrances classes of the 1940s & 1950s), and…I can’t help but wonder what role the “throw away” culture also plays in this dynamic in that new & young=good/healthy/”orthodox” while old & established=bad/unhealthy/”heterodox” (I find the heterodox label to be particularly offensive because it is almost exclusively lobbed at the older, established congregations, despite the fact that the Sisters in these congregations have been living [for decades] and continue to live lives that are faithful to God and to their approved Constitutions.  Religious Life doesn’t get any more orthodox than that.

Nada, really, the only “red flag” that I might see in your discernment (and from what you’ve written, I can’t even tell for sure if it’s there) is that your spiritual director seems to be pushing you toward a community in which he has a vested interest.  I’m not telling you not to discern with that community—I’m only saying that if you do decide to discern with them, it would be wise to do so with the help of a more detached spiritual director.

Regardless of what you do, you can count on my prayers as you continue to listen for and respond to that still, small voice of God.  Please also be assured that you & your country are in my prayers and those of our Sisters during this time of yet more violence and sadness.

[Sponsa-Christi]

17 minutes ago, Hna.Caridad said:

One thing that I’ve noticed over the last 10 years or so is that the “growing” communities (with the exception of just a few) are also the “newer” communities—those who were founded after Vatican II and who, with the exception of their foundresses, have almost no Sisters in their 70’s and practically none in their 80’s, 90’s, or over 100.

This might actually just be more of a math/statistics issue than anything else. New communities almost by definition have fewer members than established communities, so even a few new members in a new community will look like major growth.

For example, if a new community starts with two founding members, then they get one new postulant, then the community has grown by 50 percent. On paper, this looks like amazing growth!

But on the other hand, if an established community has 200 members, and they get two new postulants at the same time that three elderly members die, then their community has technically diminished---even though in reality they had twice as many postulants as the new community.

Also, I can think of a number of well-established communities that regularly have young women joining them. Off the top of my head of course are the Nashville Dominicans and the Summit Dominicans. But also the Parish Visitors (founded 1920) usually always have at least one or two women in formation, which is "enough" for them proportionally since they have always been a small community (I think their largest novice class EVER was only something like eight or ten). Other well-established communities that have active novitiates include: the Apostles of the Sacred Heart, the Franciscan Sisters of the Martyr St. George, the Carmelite Sisters in Los Angeles, the Little Sisters of the Poor, the Salesian Sisters, and the Daughters of St. Paul among others. 

[NadaTeTurbe]

On 15/07/2016 at 4:14 AM, Hna.Caridad said:

“About 30 years ago, when a good friend entered religious life, she had 3 other novices with her. In the next few years another 4 women entered. So it all looked very healthy and hopeful. But by the time she made her final vows all bar one of those 7 women had left! - and nobody else had entered and stayed. Since then they've had a few entrants, but only 2 more have made final vows, so their average age has definitely increased, and their numbers have decreased as people have also died.”

 

This is very similar to what happened to me.  It’s not as scary as it sounds—especially since I made my vows to God and God continues to be faithful to me (I try to reciprocate as best I can!)

 

One thing that I’ve noticed over the last 10 years or so is that the “growing” communities (with the exception of just a few) are also the “newer” communities—those who were founded after Vatican II and who, with the exception of their foundresses, have almost no Sisters in their 70’s and practically none in their 80’s, 90’s, or over 100.

 

I certainly understand that youth attracts youth and that it can be a bit intimidating to enter a congregation that is made up almost entirely of “older” Sisters (and most congregations founded prior to Vatican II in the U.S. & Europe do have a lot of older Sisters because those congregations were the ones that were around to accept the huge entrances classes of the 1940s & 1950s), and…I can’t help but wonder what role the “throw away” culture also plays in this dynamic in that new & young=good/healthy/”orthodox” while old & established=bad/unhealthy/”heterodox” (I find the heterodox label to be particularly offensive because it is almost exclusively lobbed at the older, established congregations, despite the fact that the Sisters in these congregations have been living [for decades] and continue to live lives that are faithful to God and to their approved Constitutions.  Religious Life doesn’t get any more orthodox than that.

 

Nada, really, the only “red flag” that I might see in your discernment (and from what you’ve written, I can’t even tell for sure if it’s there) is that your spiritual director seems to be pushing you toward a community in which he has a vested interest.  I’m not telling you not to discern with that community—I’m only saying that if you do decide to discern with them, it would be wise to do so with the help of a more detached spiritual director.

 

Regardless of what you do, you can count on my prayers as you continue to listen for and respond to that still, small voice of God.  Please also be assured that you & your country are in my prayers and those of our Sisters during this time of yet more violence and sadness.

 

Your analysis is interesting. Please allow me some reflections about the situation in France, who is a little different than in the US : 

A lot of the (new) communities who are attracting vocations in France : 
- have a strong identity : Charismatic or traditionnalist. I don't really see, like in the US, "midlde-ground conservative". 
- have an apostolate who make it easier to be known and have vocations : 
  - they organize big "festivals" at their motherhouse, aimed at youth and family 
  - They organize pilgrimages, summer camps, with their movements 
  - Very often, their main apostolate is to take care of youth group, parents group, etc... centered on their own spirituality. 
it's easier in this situation, to be known by the youth, than sisters working with the elderly, or sisters working in parish without putting their charism first. I don't know if I'm clear, and again, this is only about France. 

(I swear, when I'm older, I'll do an extensive studies of the new communities in France after VII, and of the new communities in the US after VII, because I see many differences)

i see you're an "hermana de la caridad". Would you agree to tell me wich congregation you're part of  ? Thank you. 

Don't worry about my SD and this community. He knows I love hearing stories of women founding religious institutes in the XIXth, so he wants to share with me the life and community of Marie-Euphrasie Pelletiers. But he is very respectful of my conscience, and he's not very "directive" - he doesn't give orders, but guide me so I can make good decisions for my spiritual life. He's one of the best  

Thank you for your prayers for me our poor motherland. We need them. 

[sr.christinaosf]

I feel the same way about our area of the country.  So often, it seems, young women go off to another part of the country to join a newer order.  I feel that the local church here needs vocations to the religious life and am disappointed when people go elsewhere.  

[truthfinder]

1 hour ago, sr.christinaosf said:

I feel the same way about our area of the country.  So often, it seems, young women go off to another part of the country to join a newer order.  I feel that the local church here needs vocations to the religious life and am disappointed when people go elsewhere.  

This reminds me of at least two now-deceased sisters who, when asked why they entered a particular order, answered because it was one of the closest (or only) community around them.  

I have my worries about some of the younger orders because they have no elderly sisters (or only a handful) - do they really know how they'll treat their cohorts of nuns when all of a sudden there's 20-50 of them who hit 'retirement' age?