Jansenism

[NadaTeTurbe]

10 minutes ago, truthfinder said:

Ooh Gallicanism, my favourite! Not really, but it comes up in my research.

I still have nightmares about gallicanism since last semesters. What is you research field ? 

There was an amazing book about jansenism and Port Royal abbey published two or three years ago. It's called "Port Royal" and it's every writings and historian works about Port Royal, all of it in one book : https://www.amazon.fr/Port-Royal-Laurence-Plazenet/dp/2081286173/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472143271&sr=8-1&keywords=Port+Royal

 

[truthfinder]

2 hours ago, NadaTeTurbe said:

I still have nightmares about gallicanism since last semesters. What is you research field ? 

There was an amazing book about jansenism and Port Royal abbey published two or three years ago. It's called "Port Royal" and it's every writings and historian works about Port Royal, all of it in one book : https://www.amazon.fr/Port-Royal-Laurence-Plazenet/dp/2081286173/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472143271&sr=8-1&keywords=Port+Royal

 

I'll send you a message.

[<3 PopeFrancis]

21 hours ago, PhuturePriest said:

Building on what Nihil said, Jansenism is predicated on elevating the Divinity of Jesus to the point of abolishing his humanity.

This is what I've heard of it.  I heard there were heresies in which the opposite was the case.

[Nihil Obstat]

29 minutes ago, <3 PopeFrancis said:

This is what I've heard of it.  I heard there were heresies in which the opposite was the case.

Pelagianism, in a certain sense.

[<3 PopeFrancis]

14 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Pelagianism, in a certain sense.

I don't really understand Pelagianism.  The heresy seems subtle but extremely dangerous.  

I was thinking more of Manichaeism.  They are similar in the way way apples and oranges are different but are the both fruit.    

I mean Pelagianism and Manichaeism.

[<3 PopeFrancis]

21 hours ago, truthfinder said:

Yes, but I want to know what the general Catholic populace might think when they hear "the society was governed by Jansenists until the 1960s." I don't need an actual definition. What sort of attributes would a 'Jansenist' society have in, say, 1920.  Just as America is described as having purantanistic tendencies into today in regards to sex and alcohol consumption, despite what Puritans actually believed in regards to these subjects. 

 

Torquemada and the Spanish Inquisition.  Maybe McCarthy in the 1950's.  Today Catholic tendencies to it in regards to homosexuality might be why Pope Francis seems to take them 'under his wing so to say.

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by <3 PopeFrancis
I missed a word.

[Nihil Obstat]

I was reading Predestination by Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, and there was a fascinating contest between predestinationism on one hand and Pelagianism on the other, with Catholic predestination being the true golden mean. It was a sense in which I had not considered Pelagianism before.

[<3 PopeFrancis]

Yes.  It does sound like this would be some interesting debating .

I will check it out.

 

1 hour ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Predestination by Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange

Is this a novel or non-fiction?

 

[Nihil Obstat]

Very exciting sci-fi.

No, it is scholastic theology.

[<3 PopeFrancis]

Yes.  I don't really know about all of the heresies and the ones I do know something about I mix up.  I never read about heresies only generally.  I admit I'm curious about them but I didn't make it a priority.

[Amppax]

1 hour ago, Nihil Obstat said:

I was reading Predestination by Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, and there was a fascinating contest between predestinationism on one hand and Pelagianism on the other, with Catholic predestination being the true golden mean. It was a sense in which I had not considered Pelagianism before.

I was actually just talking to someone about that passage. It is funny how Pelagianism and Jansenism, though opposites in so many ways, practically produce such similar outcomes: rigorism and joylessness. 

[<3 PopeFrancis]

 

2 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Predestination by Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange

Thank you for the suggestion.  I just got it and look forward to reading it.

[Nihil Obstat]

I said contest above, I think that was an autocorrect from contrast. Makes better sense that way.

2 hours ago, Amppax said:

I was actually just talking to someone about that passage. It is funny how Pelagianism and Jansenism, though opposites in so many ways, practically produce such similar outcomes: rigorism and joylessness. 

For a Pelagian, who believes that he can merit salvation, it must be a horrible experience to feel that real sense of concupiscence that just inevitably proves that no, you are not good enough. He does not really have that option to abandon himself to divine providence.

[PhuturePriest]

9 hours ago, Amppax said:

I was actually just talking to someone about that passage. It is funny how Pelagianism and Jansenism, though opposites in so many ways, practically produce such similar outcomes: rigorism and joylessness. 

My spiritual director told me scrupulosity (Jansenism) was ultimately Pelagian in nature, because the scrupulous person believes they can merit heaven if they are perfect enough.