Heaven

[Quasar]

If you believe in Heaven, why do you believe it's real?  Is there anything outside of scripture and doctrine that compels you to believe?  

What do you think it's like?

[Guest]

Interesting questions.

Raised believing in Heaven as very real indeed is probably my answer to question one.  I believe because I believe - seems to have been always that way to my memory.

Nothing that "compels" me to believe probably answer to question two.  I think of "compel" as some sort of exterior force brought to bear to believe in Heaven in this context.

Question three (had to think carefully about that one): The Alpha the journey and the Omega of all creation in one.

 

 

[Jack4]

1. My religion, mainly. 

2. Immortality of soul and benevolence of God can be found by reason. 

3. Incomparable happiness. 

[Peace]

9 hours ago, Quasar said:

What do you think it's like?

 

 

[WhiteLily]

I don't need physical proof. From the grace of my Baptism, I have all the gifts I need to help me persevere in faith, hope, and charity. To me, it doesn't make sense that most people believe in the devil and do not believe in God. 

Does on think the our Free Will comes from Satan, who is a creature created by God? We have the ability to choose Good and Evil. To me, logically, if I know I have the ability to chose, I have my conscience, and the graces from my Baptism, why would I want to throw my soul away and give it to Saran, who is a liar. 

[Nihil Obstat]

[Quasar]

7 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

Nothing that "compels" me to believe probably answer to question two.  I think of "compel" as some sort of exterior force brought to bear to believe in Heaven in this context.

 

 

After I wrote that, I considered editing to say "persuade", but I was overcome with sloth.

[Nihil Obstat]

8 minutes ago, Quasar said:

After I wrote that, I considered editing to say "persuade", but I was overcome with sloth.

I blame Saran.

[Guest]

[Quasar]

Catholic heaven seems pretty amesome!

 

A neuroscientist wrote a book about a near death experience that incorporates some things I hope are in heaven, like intense feelings of love and connection.  I'm not sure NDEs can tell us what heaven is like though, since who knows where they were.  I like to think about it, though.

[dairygirl4u2c]

i think NDE's are very compelling evidence for life after death, which is usually portrayed as heavenly. it's more of a stretch to say the common themes like a tunnel life review meeting relatives encounter with the light etc are stories that are somehow embedded in people's dying brains.
my deepest religious belief is that there is life after death. this is mostly influenced by NDEs and miracles which give credence to religion's claims. but also aside from saying how to live, the main purpose of religion is to give us hope that death is not the end.

Edited September 23, 2016 by dairygirl4u2c

[Anomaly]

I do not believe in a an afterlife at all.  I certainly wanted to for most of my life and the vast majority of people I know believe. 

As far as the wonderful heavenly experiences such as connectedness and love, we can (and should) try to make those realities now.  Heaven in the afterlife certainly fosters hope and can provide comfort for many, but it is really only experienced now. 

[Quasar]

Yeah, I think we know the reasons people don't believe.  It's interesting to me when someone has a strong sense that an afterlife exists.  I have more of an intermittent sense about it.  I'd like to understand where that strong belief comes from, especially when it comes from a place other than formal religion.

 

One of the novices on the Mt St Mary Abbey  (whose interview is posted on their page) was raised without a religion.  However, she had a strong sense of an afterlife even as a child.  It tied into her sense of a personal presence beyond the material world, and she decided that if she could find the source of this personal presence, she would give her life to it.  She expressed it much better than I just did, though.

[A Yearning Heart]

It's a part of my faith, and I'm not sure what its like.

Beyond Scripture and Doctrine, some modern Saints have recounted their experiences of being shown hell, purgatory and heaven. St Faustina comes to mind and I think the children of Lourdes or Fatima. 

 

[LittleWaySoul]

I am not fundamentally satisfied with anything this earth has to offer. I think that I am at times; I run after what I think will make me happy. But when I get it, it never truly fulfills my desire for wholeness, peace, or communion. I would lose hope very quickly if I stopped believing that there is a God and an afterlife. 

[Quasar]

1 hour ago, LittleWaySoul said:

I am not fundamentally satisfied with anything this earth has to offer. I think that I am at times; I run after what I think will make me happy. But when I get it, it never truly fulfills my desire for wholeness, peace, or communion. I would lose hope very quickly if I stopped believing that there is a God and an afterlife. 

I can understand that.  OTOH it's not intellectually satisfying to me to accept an idea only because it makes me feel good.  It makes me feel good, therefore it's true... that doesn't work for me.  It is easier for me to simply accept on faith, because it's the teaching of the Church.

However, I think that your sense of wanting something more than this world has to offer, points to us having been made for more than this world.

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2016 by Quasar

[Jack4]

 

Quote

 

esse sequitur operationem et operationem sequitur esse. That is, the sort of thing a thing does follows upon its way of existing, so we can understand its way of existing by the sort of thing it does.

 

It order to posit some existence apart from matter, there must be some operation or action of the thing that is separable from matter. While there are degrees of immateriality with sensation, imagination, memory, etc, all of these necessarily involve matter, as they are powers of some organ (in all animals, including men and cats)

 

Only one faculty of man has an operation separable from matter, namely the intellect (and following upon it the will). By intellect we understand not imagination, memory or the estimative (or cognitive sense in man), which high animals have (thus they can "learn" and exhibit some "intelligence" as the term is wont to be used in modern studies), but we understand the grasp of intelligible forms, which are only apprehended abstracted from every condition of matter. While we indeed think about them using our imagination/memory, the actual apprehension of them is necessarily apart from matter. Therefore, there is an operation separable from matter, and hence we can reason a principle of existence separable.

 

 

[Quasar]

Jack, I consider the intellect to be a function of the brain.  How do you conceptualize it?

[PhuturePriest]

LittleWaySoul poses a similar answer to mine. I have a yearning desire which this life simply cannot fulfill, and like a thirst for water, it stands to reason I don't have some weird random desire for something which doesn't exist. No goal I have ever ardently desired and then accomplished ever gave me the happiness and fulfillment I thought it would. The closest thing I have ever had to that has been through prayer and charitable acts.

[A Yearning Heart]

1 hour ago, PhuturePriest said:

LittleWaySoul poses a similar answer to mine. I have a yearning desire which this life simply cannot fulfill, and like a thirst for water, it stands to reason I don't have some weird random desire for something which doesn't exist. No goal I have ever ardently desired and then accomplished ever gave me the happiness and fulfillment I thought it would. The closest thing I have ever had to that has been through prayer and charitable acts.

 

This is it! (when looking beyond the intellectual answer and straight to the heart of things...) 

Ps 62: "like a dry weary land without water"