Third Party Vote

[Seven77]

On 10/11/2016 at 10:07 PM, Seven77 said:

or http://www.voteforjoe.com/

 

 never mind, I changed my mind and I'm leaning towards McMullen and encourage others to do the same because he has more of a chance to win… the one concern I have is that most dissatisfied people do not even know who he is…

[Gabriela]

I'm voting a straight Libertarian ticket, including Johnson. Nobody would outlaw abortion, so it hardly matters who you vote for on that. I think this year we have much bigger concerns that involve a whole panoply of issues that arise when your options are to be led by a pompous self-absorbed pathological liar or a raging beesh at the helm of a conspiracy ring.

Murdered babies are bad, but if my only choice is between murdered babies + socioeconomic Armageddon and murdered babies + a slow return to socioeconomic sanity, I'll take the latter, thank you.

[HisChildForever]

On October 19, 2016 at 11:34 PM, Gabriela said:

I'm voting a straight Libertarian ticket, including Johnson. Nobody would outlaw abortion, so it hardly matters who you vote for on that. I think this year we have much bigger concerns that involve a whole panoply of issues that arise when your options are to be led by a pompous self-absorbed pathological liar or a raging beesh at the helm of a conspiracy ring.

Murdered babies are bad, but if my only choice is between murdered babies + socioeconomic Armageddon and murdered babies + a slow return to socioeconomic sanity, I'll take the latter, thank you.

Yes, I came to the decision that I will definitely be voting Johnson, and I'm very much at peace with that. I figured voting straight Republican for everything else, but we'll see.

[Anomaly]

On 10/19/2016 at 11:34 PM, Gabriela said:

I'm voting a straight Libertarian ticket, including Johnson. Nobody would outlaw abortion, so it hardly matters who you vote for on that. I think this year we have much bigger concerns that involve a whole panoply of issues that arise when your options are to be led by a pompous self-absorbed pathological liar or a raging beesh at the helm of a conspiracy ring.

Murdered babies are bad, but if my only choice is between murdered babies + socioeconomic Armageddon and murdered babies + a slow return to socioeconomic sanity, I'll take the latter, thank you.

I think choosing to give up on abortion and vote Libertarian or voting Johnson and voting straight Republicans is a mistake.   

It took a number of years to legalize abortion.   Bills have been raised to limit Abortion have been raised a number of times.   There will NEVER be a President that can change it by themselves.  That isn't how our government system works.  

Why vote Republican if your Republican is pro abortion?    Why skip a pro-life Democrat and vote a Libertarian?  Why give up on abortion?    In the short term, abortion isn't going to go away.   It takes a long term strategy.   Drop an email to a wishy washy "pro-life" politician and tell him your concerns. Drop an email to a real pro/life politician and tell him you'll vote for them.   Tell a Democrat or a Republican candidate you considered them but did not like their position on abortion.  

Abortion isn't just a religious principle.  Philosophically, its killing inconvenient people. It takes more than making a religion based argument. 

At the very least, think and engage yourself in the voting process.   

[Gabriela]

I do think and I am engaged in the voting process. Turning an election into a one-issue thing is foolish and short-sighted. Have you ever thought that maybe the Devil is turning the entire country to poo by using the votes of one-issue people who will vote their issue regardless of everything else a candidate says or even does, even if it's batshit crazy?

If I'm not mistaken, abortion wasn't legalized by election at all. It was a Supreme Court decision that legalized it. And those bills that have restricted it have (almost?) all been at the state level. So what good do you really expect a vote for someone who is pro-life but otherwise totally incompetent/crazy to do at the national level?

I think most one-issue folks are just people who are obsessed with that one issue and they tell themselves they've "done the right thing" by voting for Hitler because he was the only candidate who was pro-/anti-my obsession. It is possible to really, really care about murdered babies and ALSO really, really care about the big picture in a way that's balanced and healthy. It's possible to hope that change will happen on the abortion front by many means and also to be realistic about the fact that not much change is likely to happen on abortion by means of voting but a lot of change could happen on other things by voting. Personally, I don't think voting is the way we're going to put a dent in abortion. But we could put a dent in religious persecution that way. And lots of other things.

[KnightofChrist]

If Gary Johnson was ok with the legal extermination or enslavement of blacks that would be one issue that would eliminate him from being even considered.  But since it's just children that's one issue of many and not a hill worth dying on. That's a shame.

[Peace]

3 hours ago, Gabriela said:

I do think and I am engaged in the voting process. Turning an election into a one-issue thing is foolish and short-sighted. Have you ever thought that maybe the Devil is turning the entire country to poo by using the votes of one-issue people who will vote their issue regardless of everything else a candidate says or even does, even if it's batshit crazy?

If I'm not mistaken, abortion wasn't legalized by election at all. It was a Supreme Court decision that legalized it. And those bills that have restricted it have (almost?) all been at the state level. So what good do you really expect a vote for someone who is pro-life but otherwise totally incompetent/crazy to do at the national level?

I think most one-issue folks are just people who are obsessed with that one issue and they tell themselves they've "done the right thing" by voting for Hitler because he was the only candidate who was pro-/anti-my obsession. It is possible to really, really care about murdered babies and ALSO really, really care about the big picture in a way that's balanced and healthy. It's possible to hope that change will happen on the abortion front by many means and also to be realistic about the fact that not much change is likely to happen on abortion by means of voting but a lot of change could happen on other things by voting. Personally, I don't think voting is the way we're going to put a dent in abortion. But we could put a dent in religious persecution that way. And lots of other things.

You raise an interesting point. It is a long-haul to making abortion illegal again. Once you get past the US constitution, you still are going to have to re-enact abortion legislation in all or a significant number of states. The constitutional issue may not even matter that much if we cannot swing public opinion on the issue.

I wonder whether than trying to pack the court with pro-life judges, whether the amendment route might be a better place to place our efforts. An amendment is tougher to get in the first place, but has a stronger degree of permanence. Even if you repeal Roe v. Wade, there is really nothing that would stop a new set of judges from reaching the same bad result a few election cycles down the road.

Ultimately there is no solution to the problem except to foster a true culture of life in our society (which we have never had) and to convince a large majority of people that abortion is evil. Before that happens making it illegal will be pretty tough. That probably starts with us here at Phatmass first - living our own lives in a manner that allows the light of Christ to shine in the world.

A large number of people simply do not see an unborn child as a part of the human community.

2 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

If Gary Johnson was ok with the legal extermination or enslavement of blacks that would be one issue that would eliminate him from being even considered.

Unless the other candidates were also OK with the legal extermination or enslavement of blacks, that is.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Peace

[KnightofChrist]

10 minutes ago, Peace said:

Unless the other candidates were also OK with the legal extermination or enslavement of blacks, that is.

No, Abortion and Slavery are non-negotiable. Or at least they use to be... I guess Catholics can sell out on that now.

[dairygirl4u2c]

if it's a mortal sin to vote for a prochoice democrat, it's a mortal sin to vote for a prochoice libertarian, like gary johnson.

if most people support most abortion, which they do, trying to change it is an exercise in futility.  people have been voting on that issue alone for around forty years, and nothing significant has changed, because there just isn't the support behind changing it. repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

Edited October 24, 2016 by dairygirl4u2c

[LittleWaySoul]

Wheeee http://www.solidarity-party.org/

[Peace]

24 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

No, Abortion and Slavery are non-negotiable. Or at least they use to be... I guess Catholics can sell out on that now.

You are voting for someone who has advocated for torture and killing innocent people. Are those not on your list of non-negotiables?

If someone voting for Johnson is a sellout then so are you.

23 minutes ago, dairygirl4u2c said:

if it's a mortal sin to vote for a prochoice democrat, it's a mortal sin to vote for a prochoice libertarian, like gary johnson.

No. The Church does not teach this.

 

Edited October 24, 2016 by Peace

[Seven77]

13 minutes ago, LittleWaySoul said:

Wheeee http://www.solidarity-party.org/

It's a shame that we as Catholics in this country are not all rallying around this party. instead, many prefer to support worship? the 2 headed beast.

[dairygirl4u2c]

i know it's not officially a mortal sin to the church to vote for someone like clinton. but a lot of catholics still insist it is anyway. it's always amusing to watch people elevate their own opinions to the level of doctrine, and cast people to hell for disagreeing with them. well, it'd be amusing if it wasnt so disturbing, anyway.

[Peace]

2 hours ago, Seven77 said:

It's a shame that we as Catholics in this country are not all rallying around this party. instead, many prefer to support worship? the 2 headed beast.

They are fresh off the boat. But I like their platform. I was thinking about voting for McMullin, but ASP got on the ballot in VA about a week ago. Maybe I will vote for the ASP candidate.

[Gabriela]

6 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

If Gary Johnson was ok with the legal extermination or enslavement of blacks that would be one issue that would eliminate him from being even considered.  But since it's just children that's one issue of many and not a hill worth dying on. That's a shame.

Wrong, and a shameful strawman. If Gary Johnson were the ONLY candidate ok with the legal extermination or enslavement of blacks, then that WOULD eliminate him from consideration. But if Gary Johnson, Hillary Clinton, and Donald Trump were ALL ok with the legal extermination or enslavement of blacks, then that would be one issue that would cancel out across the three of them, still leaving Gary Johnson as clearly the least stupid, incompetent, and crazy of them all. It wouldn't eliminate any of them from being considered because every candidate running would have the same objectionable stance on your favorite issue. Which only leaves other issues on which to make the decision.

 

3 hours ago, Peace said:

Ultimately there is no solution to the problem except to foster a true culture of life in our society (which we have never had) and to convince a large majority of people that abortion is evil. Before that happens making it illegal will be pretty tough. That probably starts with us here at Phatmass first - living our own lives in a manner that allows the light of Christ to shine in the world.

This is my opinion. The only real solution to abortion at this late stage is to change the hearts of Americans, one by one. Starting with making it socially taboo—even if it remains legal—is a good way to go, IMO, and making it illegal or very difficult at the state level could help with that. We need to get it to the point where it is something that one could do, but no one would dare because society perceives it as so awful. From there, it is possible to actually outlaw it again. But it's a long way off.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Gabriela

[HisChildForever]

Donald Trump might claim to be pro-life but on a lot of social justice issues he is hardly the poster child for the Catholic vote. The things he has said about immigrants and refugees, his mockery of the disabled, the degrading language used about women and human sexuality in general, hardly in line with Catholic values. I for one refuse to be "shamed" or called a bad Catholic for not voting Trump. I will not cast judgment on those voting for him and expect the same in return.

[Amppax]

On 10/24/2016 at 7:34 PM, Peace said:

They are fresh off the boat. But I like their platform. I was thinking about voting for McMullin, but ASP got on the ballot in VA about a week ago. Maybe I will vote for the ASP candidate.

Do it and you're cool! 

[Archaeology cat]

On 10/24/2016 at 7:34 PM, Peace said:

They are fresh off the boat. But I like their platform. I was thinking about voting for McMullin, but ASP got on the ballot in VA about a week ago. Maybe I will vote for the ASP candidate.

I voted ASP (did early voting yesterday)

On 10/24/2016 at 9:49 PM, HisChildForever said:

Donald Trump might claim to be pro-life but on a lot of social justice issues he is hardly the poster child for the Catholic vote. The things he has said about immigrants and refugees, his mockery of the disabled, the degrading language used about women and human sexuality in general, hardly in line with Catholic values. I for one refuse to be "shamed" or called a bad Catholic for not voting Trump. I will not cast judgment on those voting for him and expect the same in return.

Ditto

[Gabriela]

Watch the video at this link for a campaign ad that's making the rounds as an excellent example of good (i.e., not hateful) campaigning.

@dUSt: Getting a 403 error anytime I try to embed video.

[LittleWaySoul]

On 10/24/2016 at 7:34 PM, Peace said:

They are fresh off the boat. But I like their platform. I was thinking about voting for McMullin, but ASP got on the ballot in VA about a week ago. Maybe I will vote for the ASP candidate.

Unless you're in Utah, voting McMullin might actually hurt his chances of forcing a tie, from what I understand. 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438907/evan-mcmullin-independent-candidate-does-he-have-chance