Vatican rules against ashes being scattered

[little2add]

Rome (CNN)The Vatican announced Tuesday that Catholics may be cremated but should not have their ashes scattered at sea or kept in urns at home.

according to the article ( http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/25/europe/cremation-vatican-scattering/ ) Cremains can only be kept at home with special permission from a bishop.   

 

[truthfinder]

Maybe I'm being obtuse, but is any of this actually new?

In other news, there's something from the Vatican that I can whole-heartedly support.

[CatherineM]

Nothing new there. 

Just trying to get the message to those who think the Church should think they way they want them too. 

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

Can I ask a really stupid question? Sorry.

I read the article about cremation being allowed (although not preferred) as long as certain conditions were met, such as the cremains being buried in a holy place, such as a Catholic church or a Catholic cemetery. Made sense.

But, how do saints fit into this picture? As far as I can tell, relics of saints may be scattered among several churches, thus not keeping the body together, which seemed to be one goal of the rules. Do a separate set of rules apply to relics of saints?

Also, I assume there is a dispensation for Roman Catholics whose remains have been scattered through no decision of their own or their families--plane crashes, explosions, acts of war, etc. In many cases, families may never have access to the remains/cremains because they cannot be separated from other remains. This issue must have come up after 9/11 for Catholic families.

Is there also some kind of special treatment for Roman Catholic martyrs who were burned at the stake, sometimes with others, causing ashes to be mixed. Other types of martyrdom also might have caused the various parts of the body to be scattered and not remain together.

This isn't a "burning" theological question for me (so to speak ). The Pope's clarification of the rules regarding cremation simply raised these other questions, too, and I figured there was something I was missing.

Thanks in advance!

[Guest]

Not being able to scatter ashes does make the after death arrangements more expensive.

[Gabriela]

48 minutes ago, IgnatiusofLoyola said:

Can I ask a really stupid question? Sorry.

I read the article about cremation being allowed (although not preferred) as long as certain conditions were met, such as the cremains being buried in a holy place, such as a Catholic church or a Catholic cemetery. Made sense.

But, how do saints fit into this picture? As far as I can tell, relics of saints may be scattered among several churches, thus not keeping the body together, which seemed to be one goal of the rules. Do a separate set of rules apply to relics of saints?

Also, I assume there is a dispensation for Roman Catholics whose remains have been scattered through no decision of their own or their families--plane crashes, explosions, acts of war, etc. In many cases, families may never have access to the remains/cremains because they cannot be separated from other remains. This issue must have come up after 9/11 for Catholic families.

Is there also some kind of special treatment for Roman Catholic martyrs who were burned at the stake, sometimes with others, causing ashes to be mixed. Other types of martyrdom also might have caused the various parts of the body to be scattered and not remain together.

This isn't a "burning" theological question for me (so to speak ). The Pope's clarification of the rules regarding cremation simply raised these other questions, too, and I figured there was something I was missing.

Thanks in advance!

These aren't stupid questions at all. In fact, the one about the ashes of saints is a really, really good point.

[Sponsa-Christi]

@IgnatiusofLoyola The directives on cremation are meant to tell us how we should act and why (i.e., keep ashes together in a sacred space as a sign of respect for the integrity and sanctity of the human body). They are not meant as a theological treatise on what happens in unfortunate situations beyond anyone's control. Just because someone's mortal remains might be burned and scattered in an accident doesn't mean that intentionally scattering remains is a good choice to make.  

Re. relics...I think saints' relics are different from cremated remains being stored "creatively," in that relics are always meant to be especially respected and venerated. So I think the idea is that keeping relics to venerate is still respectful of the dignity of the human body in a way that something like storing grandma's ashes in a locket wouldn't be. 

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

5 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

Not being able to scatter ashes does make the after death arrangements more expensive.

I know of one congregation who found a solution to this. Yes, they were Episcopalian, but I didn't read anything in the newspaper article that would disallow this for Catholics. The church building had a relatively small (perhaps 10 feet by 20 feet) front area right by the entrance to the church. The area was blocked off by a small hedge (so no one accidentally walked on it).This area was used as a cemetery for ashes. The area was divided into one foot squares. After the priest performed the burial service, the ashes would be buried in one of the squares, in a cardboard container. None of the squares were marked (so the area looked like a simple lawn), but the names of those buried in the cemetery were on a large, respectful plaque just inside the front door of the church. This way, the ashes were given a respectful, Christian burial in a churchyard. The cost for this was minimal, and knowing this congregation, I'm sure that individuals were interred there even if they could not pay.

[Spem in alium]

5 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

Not being able to scatter ashes does make the after death arrangements more expensive.

That's right. My sisters and I were discussing this statement this morning. Burial plots are roughly $3,000 nowadays, and of course you also need to pay for the work of the undertakers on top of all the other expenses that come with a funeral. Dying isn't cheap.

Cremation is, by comparison, much cheaper, and scattering the cremains cheaper still. I think a big motivation surrounding the scattering of cremains (besides the economical nature of it all) is the idea that the person will be "free". My aunt's cremains were scattered into a valley. It's a place which probably meant a lot to her, but I feel a but uneasy anytime I hear of a person's ashes being scattered someplace.  

As for not storing ashes in the home, I totally agree. I once heard a story of a family who stored their relative's cremains under a sink.

[Guest]

It does mean that I need to increase my funeral policy and that means higher premiums, which in reality, I cannot afford and hence probably will not be increasing.  It is unrealistic for the poor to increase the cost of burial expenses for those left behind and at a time of grieving.

[Gabriela]

I did not know all of this and some of it is so sad.  

[CatherineM]

I wanted to become a reef ball. We bought niches instead. They were two grand a piece. 

[Anomaly]

When my dad died, my mom used insurance money and bought 14 plots for her and my dad, kids, and spouses.  

You can shop now for funeral arrangements and get it done cheaply.  Most people overspend out of guilt or being overwhelmed.      Personally, I would prefer to be buried in a biodegradable box in a garden.  I'm hoping my legacy would be my children's memories.  Face it, twenty years after you're dead, almost nobidy really cares.  Why have a shelf for ashes, or a fancy gravestone, or 24 sq ft of real estate, committed to you for the next few hundred years?

I think the Church frowns on the scattering because of resurrection of the body.  Cremation requires rehydration and reassembly if your still in the same jar.  Leaving your cremains in the garage shelf seems you subject it to active disrespect.  

[dominicansoul]

I bought my grave.  I also went ahead and bought my brother's grave too.  The graveyard was having a "two for one" special that day.

[Papist]

5 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

I bought my grave.  I also went ahead and bought my brother's grave too.  The graveyard was having a "two for one" special that day.

[little2add]

Today, the average North American traditional funeral costs $10,000 or more. This price range includes the services at the funeral home, burial in a cemetery, and the installation of a headstone.

The average cost of cremation with services handled through a funeral home is between $2,000 and $4,000.

burial is just not a option for a lot of people

[Gabriela]

9 hours ago, Anomaly said:

Face it, twenty years after you're dead, almost nobidy really cares.  Why have a shelf for ashes, or a fancy gravestone, or 24 sq ft of real estate, committed to you for the next few hundred years?

This reminds me of when I was doing genealogical research in Germany and discovered from Lurch the cemetery keeper that, after 100 years, they remove your headstone, dig you up, set you aside, dig deeper, put you back in, add about a foot of dirt, put someone else on top of you, and stick their headstone where yours used to be.

Apparently, German cemeteries are just layers and layers of bodies all the way down.

 

 

9 hours ago, Anomaly said:

I think the Church frowns on the scattering because of resurrection of the body.

Jews outright forbid cremation for precisely this reason. I think it's silly, cuz putting you back together is nuthin to God, but you know, religious beliefs, different strokes, etc. 

[truthfinder]

1 hour ago, little2add said:

Today, the average North American traditional funeral costs $10,000 or more. This price range includes the services at the funeral home, burial in a cemetery, and the installation of a headstone.

The average cost of cremation with services handled through a funeral home is between $2,000 and $4,000.

burial is just not a option for a lot of people

This is certainly a problem.  Part of the problem as well is the over-regulation of burials.  Some of this is starting to change with the trend in 'green' funerals.  The push for embalming, particularly embalming people who will be cremated, is ridiculous.  

I've told my family I want to be buried, and not embalmed, but I don't care if they wrap me in a rug. 

[Guest]

Seems too that The Church might be acquiring land for the purposes of Catholic burial, at a cost to those left behind.

[Nihil Obstat]

1 hour ago, BarbaraTherese said:

Seems too that The Church might be acquiring land for the purposes of Catholic burial, at a cost to those left behind.

What exactly are you insinuating?