Reverence in Church before and after Mass

[bernadette d]

As many of you know I look after a retired Priest and, because of the difference in our ages, we both thought it a good idea to think ahead to the time when, if God Wills it, I will need to move on. (No I won't be leaving him as long as he needs me) So I have a flat, and here is my point in writing this.

It is situated in a parish where there is a lot of noise, greeting each other, etc.etc. It seems as if the "community" aspect, which has it's place, has almost total preference over reverence and prayer. For most people it is a once a week opportunity for a "catch up" with God and many find this difficult in the melee. It simply seems to be the norm and anyone putting another view is considered out of touch or anti-social. I personally like the reverent approach but have not expressed this as I have not moved in fully yet. I would love to hear your views on this.

 

[Guest]

I wonder if the approach of St Therese of Lisieux might help.  During prayer she was constantly distracted and annoyed by a Sister's rattling of rosary beads.  She finally offered the rattling rosary and her Sister to God as her prayer.  Talk and laughter in Church prior and after Mass can be distracting and annoying and to offer it to God as prayer is not as easy as it might sound either.  Sometimes but only sometimes interior silence can be deeper than whatever at all is happening exteriorly, but this is might not be something chosen, it is a more likely a random involuntary occurrence.

Just as some would like to catch up with God, others like to catch up with others in fellowship.......and "whatever you do for one of these, you have done it for me".

It is probably a question of making the best of a distasteful and disliked situation one cannot opt out of, nor change.  One might need to make quiet catch up times with God at home when alone and to accept quietly the situation before and after Mass......unless one's parish priest might be prepared to attempt something, which might work - might not.

 

Edited November 20, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[philothea]

I would look at nearby parishes to see if I could find one that was more reverent. There have been times when I've traveled a long way for mass. 

[bernadette d]

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it. To elaborate, I am more  concerned about the seeming indifference to Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament than my own preferences. But thanks anyway.

Also parishes are very "thin on the ground" where I am going!

[beatitude]

14 minutes ago, bernadette d said:

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it. To elaborate, I am more  concerned about the seeming indifference to Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament than my own preferences. But thanks anyway.

Also parishes are very "thin on the ground" where I am going!

This reminds me of something that happened to me when I was seven years old. I'd just received Communion, and I was going back to my pew, feeling very close to Jesus and overjoyed by his presence. If I could have skipped, I would have. Then my mum leaned over to me and hissed, "Beatitude, at least clasp your hands when you're coming back from communion. It's respectful." I felt as though someone had just dashed a pail of cold water over me and woken me from sleep. I didn't say anything in my defence, I was too dazed - I'd been wrapped up in my prayer and I hadn't meant any disrespect. I decided that Jesus knew that. But from then on, I folded my hands as I walked to and from the priest.

I learned two things from this incident. One, I try very hard not to judge people who are behaving in an irreverent way - I can't know their interior state, and it may be that their prayer is purer than mine. Two, reverent behaviour is important, and I'm glad my mum taught me to keep a prayerful posture in church. So I would take Barbara's advice, and do as St Therese did - make the distractions your prayer. But also do as my mother did and try to give a good example. As the other parishioners aren't your kids, it won't be appropriate for you to go teaching them how to behave, but as you get settled into the parish and people get to know you, you can set an example. You could begin a group that meets to pray the rosary or a litany before Mass, for example. This would encourage others to join in and there would be less talking.

It may also be that there is no suitable social space for people to meet at church, and you and other parishioners could work to solve this by organising some simple events, like a potluck at someone's home. I have a catechist friend who has basically revived a whole struggling parish by hosting a series of bring-and-share suppers in the homes of different parish volunteers. Mass attendance has gone right up since she started doing that, and people felt part of a community. Participating in the parish will help you to know its needs and how to respond.

[Makarioi]

Our pastor actually encourages 'community' before Mass.  It's quite normal in our church to chat, visit, and sing to the hymn that is being played in the background.  Our tabernacle is off to the side behind window with a beautiful stained glass surrounding the window of our patron saint. We don't have a cry room but parents can take young ones out to the Narthex if necessary. 

To the other extreme we have a very traditional church in town that follows the rules to a T with signage regarding eating before Communion and appropriate dress.  They're silent before Mass, sing traditional hymns and still have altar rails where you knees for Communion and receive either in hand or on tongue.    

[He is Risen!]

I am a parishioner at an FSSP parish so noise and chatting isn't an issue there but sometimes I do end up at a regular parish just because of schedule issues.  It's very noisy there and my solution is to make a bee line for the adoration chapel after mass.  Another church by me also has a cry room chapel which kind of ironically is a quiet spot while everyone is up and talking.  Before I joined the FSSP parish a year or so ago I would get so fed up with the noise that I was tempted to wear some of those big orange ear muffs like you wear on the lawnmower while making a thanksgiving, hahaha!  Usually if you can find a latin mass or a more traditional parish there is a lot less noise in the church.   Our basement however is a doughnut fueled child zoo!

[bernadette d]

Thank you all for the input, prayers for all your intentions.

[WhiteLily]

The best thing to do is pray for them by offering your annoyances, frustrations, sadness, etc. I think a lot of it has to due to ignorance and they simply just don't know. I struggled with this for a long time. I realized it was taking away my peace and serenity and distracted me from my prayers.

If you feel called to this, I would gently talk to your pastor about this. If he is receptive and is on board, maybe he can write something in the bulletin or just remind people that we have a gathering space/narthex to talk, but let's be respectful for those who desire to pray before/after Mass.

Pray for your pastor. I'll pray for him, your parish, and for you! 

Remember, as St. Therese emphasized, bear wrongs patiently. Don't let it take away your peace. 

[Spem in alium]

When I was in Rome last year, there was a big celebration for Our Lady of Perpetual Help (I think the anniversary of when the Redemptorists received the icon). It was a Mass and procession. The church was packed and people were chatting not only before Mass, but right through it too. I'd never seen it before and my superior, who was in Rome at the same time and who attended this Mass also, said that she'd heard once that a wedding was taking place (I can't quite recall if it was in the same church or in another) and the only people focused on what was going on were the bride, the groom and the priest - all the guests were talking among themselves.

In our convent chapel, we don't talk to each other unless necessary (sometimes we might say hello/how are you, but only if there's no one else there). We try to keep silence in the house during the day and especially during times of prayer, and after we say Office in the evening most of us retire and so the place is quiet. On my recent retreat I really valued silence and reverence. Most of the time we were in silence, but there was one participant who would speak every mealtime (not for long, but enough that you would hear what she had said). At one stage I was doing some artwork in their "art room" and I heard two people approaching and talking. They opened the door and saw I was in there, but then kept talking outside the room. It was very distracting and a bit annoying, but I tried to focus not on my annoyance but on praying for them. Maybe the discussion they were having was very important and had to happen then and there. It's very important not to jump to a conclusion or a judgement, because it can close us off to openness and relationship with others and with God.

[Nihil Obstat]

16 minutes ago, Spem in alium said:

When I was in Rome last year, there was a big celebration for Our Lady of Perpetual Help (I think the anniversary of when the Redemptorists received the icon). It was a Mass and procession. The church was packed and people were chatting not only before Mass, but right through it too. I'd never seen it before and my superior, who was in Rome at the same time and who attended this Mass also, said that she'd heard once that a wedding was taking place (I can't quite recall if it was in the same church or in another) and the only people focused on what was going on were the bride, the groom and the priest - all the guests were talking among themselves.

In our convent chapel, we don't talk to each other unless necessary (sometimes we might say hello/how are you, but only if there's no one else there). We try to keep silence in the house during the day and especially during times of prayer, and after we say Office in the evening most of us retire and so the place is quiet. On my recent retreat I really valued silence and reverence. Most of the time we were in silence, but there was one participant who would speak every mealtime (not for long, but enough that you would hear what she had said). At one stage I was doing some artwork in their "art room" and I heard two people approaching and talking. They opened the door and saw I was in there, but then kept talking outside the room. It was very distracting and a bit annoying, but I tried to focus not on my annoyance but on praying for them. Maybe the discussion they were having was very important and had to happen then and there. It's very important not to jump to a conclusion or a judgement, because it can close us off to openness and relationship with others and with God.

I have heard that the custom in Italy is that the neighbourhood church is also sort of a public meeting place. Perhaps that has something to do with it.

[Spem in alium]

22 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

 I have heard that the custom in Italy is that the neighbourhood church is also sort of a public meeting place. Perhaps that has something to do with it.

It makes sense! Interestingly, this is the only church I can recall in which there was so much noise (and I visited many churches). Perhaps it was simply because there was a big celebration, and therefore more people were there. Even basilicas like Maria Maggiore and Laterano were quieter, but that may be because there's more security there.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Spem in alium

[Nihil Obstat]

Also more non-locals at those Masses.