Extern Sisters

[Crucesignata]

Salvete omnes!

 

Does anyone have any resources on extern sisters?  Particularly of the Carmelite variety...although honestly anything would be helpful.  There doesn't seem to be a lot out there that I can find on the world wide webs.

In Corde Matris,

 

Crucesignata

[Guest]

Hi Crucesignata.............If you Google: carmelite nuns - extern sisters.......... you will find a few websites addressing the subject of extern sisters in Carmel.  I hope you might find something you did not find previously.

[JHFamily]

They do certainly exist.   Their numbers seem to be dwindling, if you ask me, and many communities do not even have them anymore.  Perhaps that is why it's hard to find out anything about them.  They still remain as cloistered as possible, though their responsibilities inside the monastery are lessened so they may have time to help the chaplain, answer the turn, etc.  If you have a specific question, maybe I can help.

 

[clk]

Buffalo Carmel still has extern nuns.

 

[Crucesignata]

On 10/10/2018 at 12:23 PM, clk said:

Buffalo Carmel still has extern nuns.

 

Ah, good to know—thanks!  

On 10/10/2018 at 3:46 AM, BarbaraTherese said:

Hi Crucesignata.............If you Google: carmelite nuns - extern sisters.......... you will find a few websites addressing the subject of extern sisters in Carmel.  I hope you might find something you did not find previously.

Thanks for your help!  Yes, I did do a google search, but it wasn’t as fruitful as I had hoped. There doesn’t seem to be a whole lot out there.  

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Crucesignata said:

Thanks for your help!  Yes, I did do a google search, but it wasn’t as fruitful as I had hoped. There doesn’t seem to be a whole lot out there.  

I wonder if you contacted Carmelite communities within your travel range and asked them if they have extern sisters.  They may or may not........alternatively, they might be able to give you potential communities you could contact.  Carmelite communities usually are connected in some way to each other and are aware of what is happening in other communities.  Certainly, here in Australia they are.   Another means might be to contact the vocations director in your diocese and ask her.  

May God bless your discernment journey.  God's blessings too if you contact Buffalo Carmel. I had a look at their website and they are in the Association of St. Joseph with other Carmelite communities. https://www.carmelitenunsstjoseph.org/monastery.htm

[Guest]

On 10/10/2018 at 12:52 PM, Crucesignata said:

Salvete omnes!

 

Does anyone have any resources on extern sisters?  Particularly of the Carmelite variety...although honestly anything would be helpful.  There doesn't seem to be a lot out there that I can find on the world wide webs.

In Corde Matris,

 

Crucesignata

 Noticed the following thread on Catholic Answers about monastic extern sisters - with links to communities that do have externs:

https://forums.catholic.com/t/the-vocation-of-extern-sister/515212

[JHFamily]

I would suggest, also, that just because a community doesn't currently have an extern, it doesn't necessarily follow that they wouldn't be open to having one.

[andibc]

What JHF said.

Carmel of JMJ in Elysburg has had an extern sister for a few years now. They also had lay sisters, both of who went to the new foundation in Fairfield. If you feel called to that particular life, you should express it to the superior of the Carmels you have visited.  

[Nunsuch]

Lay sisters were suppressed by Vatican II. See Perfectae Caritatis.

 

[Bonkira]

Boston Carmel has one, the two Louisiana Carmels have them.

[kg94]

A girl called Carla who was previously on here is now a Carmelite Extern Sister. If you wish to ask her any questions, I can forward them to her and let you know? Drop me a direct message if you wish. God bless.

[Antigonos]

I didn't know Carla had become an extern.  Is she still in temporary vows, or has she made her final profession?  Anyone up to date about her?

[beatitude]

I don't know where you're based, but there is an extern sister  at the Notting Hill Carmel in London, UK. At least two Phatmassers have entered there.

[Nunsuch]

In case anyone is directing "there are certainly extern sisters" to me--my comment was about lay sisters, not externs. I know there are still externs. It was lay sisters that were suppressed by Vatican II. 

[Perfectae caritatis, #15:] That all the members be more closely knit by the bond of brotherly love, those who are called lay-brothers, assistants, or some similar name should be drawn closely in to the life and work of the community. Unless conditions really suggest something else, care should be taken that there be only one class of Sisters in communities of women. Only that distinction of persons should be retained which corresponds to-the diversity of works for which the Sisters are destined, either by special vocation from God or by reason of special aptitude.

[Sister Leticia]

Crucesignata - I'm wondering whether your question arose from feeling a strong attraction to Carmelite spirituality, but not to enclosure? If so, then there are some non-enclosed/semi-enclosed Carmelite communities. I don't personally know any of them, I only know about them, so I couldn't tell you more about how they live the Carmelite charism "in the world". One that I've heard of has 3 communities here in England, and one in the US, but is mainly in the Caribbean http://ocarm.org/en/content/corpus-christi-carmelites

But if that wasn't the reason for your query, and you simply feel a call to be an extern, then you'd better say so quickly, before other helpful people fill this thread with suggestions of non-enclosed Carmelites!

[Crucesignata]

Wow!  SO many posts!  Thank you so much for all the info!    

Yes, Sister Leticia, I am indeed discerning specifically the extern Carmelite vocation; thanks for calling for clarification!   I'll respond to the other posts tonight... when I get more time to sift through them, lol.  ^_^

In Corde Matris,

 

Crucesignata

[Crucesignata]

On 10/15/2018 at 5:11 PM, JHFamily said:

I would suggest, also, that just because a community doesn't currently have an extern, it doesn't necessarily follow that they wouldn't be open to having one.

Yes! I do have a specific community in mind—they used to have externs up until rather recently.  But formation things have changed (the top down from Rome changes) and  there isn’t a whole lot that they had on the life.  I’m just trying to find more information on the extern vocation kind of in general—although specifically Carmelite extern information would be amesome.  ^_^

[JHFamily]

I can tell you what I think I know.  The externs are formed  with the rest of the novitiate, and their roles as externs are only begun after first vows, and then only a little at a time.  The one that I have had experience with spends very little time out of the cloister.  She does help Father each morning with anything he needs and attends Mass in the public chapel, but then whoosh, she is back in the cloister again.  No hanging around talking to the laity.  However, go to the turn, and she is there greeting those visitors.

Their turn room has visiting hours so that the extern can live the full liturgical life of the rest of the community.   She takes care of the public areas -- when they are all locked up.  Her cell is inside the cloister.  I get the impression she is very integrated into the community, and there is no feeling whatsoever that she is "different".

I think of the extern much like the "runners" at a law office.  Her main duty is to be at the service of everyone else, so no telling where she will be or what she will be doing.  But she'll be "running" (at a Carmelite pace, of course).

Some of the usual duties of an extern are mitigated at this Carmel because they also have caretakers that do their shopping, driving to appointments, picking up aspirants at the airport, etc.  Some Carmels have their externs do this work.  And so, it's the usual answer given on phatmass... it depends on the community.  Contact them.

There is a section in "The Right to be Merry" wherein Mother Francis talks about externs.  If you've ever seen that book, you might want to read at least that portion.

[truthfinder]

Again, this is one of those things which differs community to community.  Too bad @Sr Mary Catharine OP wasn't posting here anymore; her community of Dominicans has extern nuns, and I think they reflect what JHFamily writes, as well as going out to some vocation events.  PCPAs, at least in Hanceville a decade ago, had an extern large enough that they were essentially a family within a family, had their own, separate place within the community and probably would have dined and recreated together.  (In my own research, waaayy back in the day, in cloistered teaching communities, the mother assistant was often in charge of the extern/lay sisters.)

Here's one Carmel's page on externs: they don't have any right now, but they do seem welcoming of those who believe it might be their vocation: https://lorettocarmel.org/extern-sisters-guardians-of-the-enclosure/