Can we vote for ANY of these people!?

[dUSt]

Biden was my only hope because I could sorta justify him over Trump based on Biden's support of the Hyde Amendment and the thought that if he were to nominate someone to the supreme court, he wouldn't use abortion as a litmus test...

But now, even he as gone full on pro-abortion.

Ugh. So frustrating.

[Lilllabettt]

3 hours ago, dUSt said:

Biden was my only hope because I could sorta justify him over Trump based on Biden's support of the Hyde Amendment and the thought that if he were to nominate someone to the supreme court, he wouldn't use abortion as a litmus test...

But now, even he as gone full on pro-abortion.

Ugh. So frustrating.

Biden is probably lying, he doesnt really care that much about abortion rights. Hes probably the best of the bunch. Am I voting for him? No. 

It's sad because in many ways I'm more of a Democrat and now that the gay marriage ship has sailed I dont factor that in so much. But the late term abortion stuff is indicative of satanic levels of depravity so ... No. 

[Seven77]

3 hours ago, dUSt said:

 

I ain't voting for the Brady Bunch. Please don't make them sing.

[little2add]

 Last nights debate with all the radical far left  political views practically guarantees a second term for Trump 

[Guest]

I vote for Toy Story 4

[Not A Mallard]

Catholic Twitter is in love with Marianne Williamson, so that must mean she's okay, right?

I don't know. I don't follow politics.

[Not A Mallard]

13 hours ago, Not A Mallard said:

Catholic Twitter is in love with Marianne Williamson, so that must mean she's okay, right?

I don't know. I don't follow politics.

Whelp, just found out she's pro-abortion. Nevermind.

[MIKolbe]

A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.

 

- some smart catholic guy

[Lilllabettt]

13 minutes ago, MIKolbe said:

A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.

 

- some smart catholic guy

So what's proportionate to abortion... that's the real question.  Prenatal people are the only humans our law explicitly declares undeserving of human rights. And they literally cant defend themselves and are being murdered millions at a time with no justice or redress possible.  

[MIKolbe]

iono...

I guess that's where prudential judgment comes into play??

or ask the smart guy who said it.....

[Papist]

You can say what you want about Trump, and most people do. But, he is the most pro-life president to date. For example, law signed by Trump allowing states to restrict state Medicaid funds from going to Planned Parenthood.     So, on the issue of abortion, Trump wins by far over all the Dem president wannabes. No president, no nominee of the Republican Party has ever stated he would name pro-life Supreme Court justices, not one, not even Ronald Reagan.  Trump was the first one to publicly pledge to put a pro-life Supreme Court justice on the bench. 

[Lilllabettt]

20 hours ago, MIKolbe said:

iono...

I guess that's where prudential judgment comes into play??

or ask the smart guy who said it.....

The smart guy who said it was Cardinal Ratzinger. He was speaking theoretically. 

I could see it applying to pro choice to killers if abortion were pretty rare. Or to those people who favor keeping abortion legal in instances of "self defense" eg life of the mother.  

Cant fathom a reason proportionate to vote for someone in favor of late term abortion on demand, in a country in which thousands of late term prenatal people are butchered every year, 80% for elective reasons. 

[chrysostom]

One catholic blogger (God rest his soul) thought about voting a lot. His general argument against it with lots of links to his other thoughts:

https://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/2012/11/02/the-bus-stops-here/

Some other particular considerations:

On voting as a principled act, not a pragmatic one - https://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/2012/10/18/reconciled-to-the-king/

The dangers of voting as a way to spread cooperation with evil far and wide: https://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/the-mass-marketing-of-hell/

A hypothesis on what voting really is about - https://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/2012/10/11/the-function-of-universal-suffrage-democratic-elections/

I find the arguments compelling but I haven't dug into it very deeply nor could I offer any kind of formal defence of his position. He says himself "this entire analysis, once we’ve gotten past the initial step of avoiding formal cooperation with evil, is a prudential analysis." And the formal cooperation bit has been already covered by a poster above.

[dominicansoul]

I’m voting for Trump.  The Democrat party platform is anti God, anti life, aggressive LGBTQ promotion, mucho government control over every fathom of our lives, tearing down our Constitution every chance they get.  Don’t let them fool you.  I still cannot fathom how any catholic can vote Democrat.  I don’t think there is any reason to.  How can you believe in their fake promises and put aside their slaughter of children?  Literal infanticide!  The vote has come up by Republicans 100 times in the house to protect babies born accidentally in abortions, and every single time the Democrat party majority blocks that protection!  

Even if the democrats were to suddenly become Prolife, the Catholic Church has always condemned communism...Democrats want total government control over every aspect of our lives, taxation to the hilt to pay for services we don’t have any say in, unfair practices like “distribution of wealth,” when it’s  none of the governments business what I do with my money...censorship of speech, forcing us to accept immoral lifestyles OR ELSE....a totally Orwellian society...

Democrats don’t want you focusing on the great economy, prison reforms, steps trump’s insured for religious liberty and Prolife measures, lowest unemployment amongst minorities EVER, etc etc etc. They will continue to force American public to see trump as the “orange man bad” because they have no chance in hell to win if they focused mainly on policies.  Compared to trump democrats have no solutions and their policies will tear down the economy and create more problems for the poor than will help them... 

Edited August 4, 2019 by dominicansoul

[Peace]

Well if you are gonna use Catholic teaching as a litmus test I don't think you can vote for any of the Democrat candidates or Trump (who has advocated for intrinsic evils such as torture).

If you are gonna vote on principle then you have to vote for some 3rd party candidate, because let's keep it real both Trump and all of the Dems are reprehensible.

If you are gonna vote pragmatically (or for the lesser of two evils) then I think you can vote for Biden, any other Democrat, or Trump. It is just going to come down to individual judgments about who the lesser evil would be, but that is up for debate. Same deal as 2016.

Hopefully the Dems will get trounced in a few more election cycles, and that will open up more avenues for pro-life candidates in the Democrat party.

But Republicans aren't making their case easy by continuing with the dog-whistle racism, which is gonna continue to piss off blacks and other minority groups who otherwise might tend to lean more conservative in their voting.

Both parties seem to be doing their best to polarize and live at the extremes, which is unfortunate.

[Peace]

4 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

I’m voting for Trump.  The Democrat party platform is anti God, anti life, aggressive LGBTQ promotion, mucho government control over every fathom of our lives, tearing down our Constitution every chance they get.  

True, but you can pretty much say the same thing about the GOP nowadays. Not as bad as the Dems though.

4 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

Don’t let them fool you.  I still cannot fathom how any catholic can vote Democrat.  I don’t think there is any reason to.  How can you believe in their fake promises and put aside their slaughter of children?  Literal infanticide!  The vote has come up by Republicans 100 times in the house to protect babies born accidentally in abortions, and every single time the Democrat party majority blocks that protection!  

Well I can understand why many blacks and Hispanics would not. The GOP is perceived as racist. Now, part of that perception is due to media bias of course, but your case isn't exactly helped when you have former GOP presidents on tape calling black people monkeys and a current president like Trump who is pretty careless with his words and managing his image. I think black generally tend to think more conservatively when it comes to social issues like abortion or gay-marriage than white Americans, but most simply are not going to vote for someone whom they perceive as anti-black.

4 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

Even if the democrats were to suddenly become Prolife, the Catholic Church has always condemned communism...Democrats want total government control over every aspect of our lives, taxation to the hilt to pay for services we don’t have any say in, unfair practices like “distribution of wealth,” when it’s  none of the governments business what I do with my money...censorship of speech, forcing us to accept immoral lifestyles OR ELSE....a totally Orwellian society...

LOL. Why don't you tell everyone how you really feel? That is a bit of an extreme characterization. It is like the Democrats who accuse all Republicans of being war-mongers, who want to control women's bodies, give money to large corporations, are racist and only care about the interests of white Americans, etc.

It is just name-calling and demonization. It is divorced from reality and it prevents any real type of compromise or solution-seeking . . .

Distribution of wealth is a valid role of government and consistent with Catholic teaching, by the way. Let's say that young unprepared mothers get accidentally pregnant, decide to have their children, yet are incapable of completely taking care of them on their own. It is completely legitimate for the state to take your and my money through the form of taxes, and redistribute it to the mother, so that she can buy food and other necessities for her child. That is a distribution of wealth.

4 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

Democrats don’t want you focusing on the great economy, prison reforms, steps trump’s insured for religious liberty and Prolife measures, lowest unemployment amongst minorities EVER, etc etc etc. They will continue to force American public to see trump as the “orange man bad” because they have no chance in hell to win if they focused mainly on policies.  Compared to trump democrats have no solutions and their policies will tear down the economy and create more problems for the poor than will help them... 

Well I actually agree with you here. If we look simply at policy I think the GOP has a clear advantage over the Dems. But this simply is not the way that the world works. People don't vote simply based on policy. A whole host of other considerations come into play when choosing a candidate, and public image is one of them. Most people expect their president to watch his tongue, and let's be honest, Trump says and does a lot of things that are offensive to people on a personal level. That is a big part of politics. It's a reason why a guy like Clinton won two times, so you can't discount it even though in a perfect world everyone should vote based on policy differences alone.

But as for the economy I dunno how long it is sustainable. Many economists predict that we are headed for a nasty recession somewhere in 2020 and recession somewhere during Trump's presidency seems almost inevitable to me. I wonder if what the Fed has been doing with these interest rates and corporate tax cuts has been another bubble in the stock and housing markets. We shall see.

But anyway I would not worry too much about it if you are a Trump fan. It seems to me that there is almost no way that he can lose in 2020 unless the economy tanks before then.

[little2add]

6 hours ago, Peace said:

But anyway I would not worry too much about it if you are a Trump fan. It seems to me that there is almost no way that he can lose in 2020 unless the economy tanks before then.

dito to da

[fides' Jack]

On 8/2/2019 at 2:24 PM, Papist said:

You can say what you want about Trump, and most people do. But, he is the most pro-life president to date. For example, law signed by Trump allowing states to restrict state Medicaid funds from going to Planned Parenthood.     So, on the issue of abortion, Trump wins by far over all the Dem president wannabes. No president, no nominee of the Republican Party has ever stated he would name pro-life Supreme Court justices, not one, not even Ronald Reagan.  Trump was the first one to publicly pledge to put a pro-life Supreme Court justice on the bench. 

Exactly.

My one argument to this is that he's also the most pro-lgbt president ever, by a long shot.  Not even Obama was as pro-lgbt as he is.  Still, it's such a small issue compared to abortion (currently)...

Edited August 7, 2019 by fides' Jack

[Didacus]

None portrayed are worse than Trudeau.  He banned from his caucus anyone with prolife sentiments.

 

God have mercy on us all...