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Jane_Doe2

 

22 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

They also never pray to Jesus. All their prayers are directed to the Father. 

The reason for this is because in the Lord's Prayer, Jesus Christ (the divine Son of God and Savior of the world) instructs us to pray unto the Father.  LDS Christians take this very literally, so hence all prayers are addressed to the Father.  All prayers then end in "in the name of Jesus Christ".  So both Father & Son are included there.  The Spirit is also included as we pray to invite the Spirit and listen for the Spirit during & afterwards.  

 

6 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

Idk man, phatmass has a storied history of conversion.

This reminds me of another important distinction between LDS and Catholicism.  LDS has an emphasis on proselytizing. Whereas in Catholicism proselytizing is a dirty word, has a very negative, even sinful connotation. I remember when my LDS roommate started talking about prostelityzing, using that word, but speaking about it as a good thing. I had to pick the bottom of my mouth up off the floor. 

LDS Christians having more emphasis on proselytizing/witnessing/evangelizing than Catholic Christians...  this is kind of a "Yes" and "No" thing.

The "Yes": obviously LDS Christians are bigger into literally walking out the door and coming to talk to people about Catholic Christians.  A prime example would be like a 2 year mission to wear a formal name tag going and preaching the gospel.

The "No": at the foundational level, LDS Christians acknowledge Catholic Christians, respecting their right to faith and worship according to the dictates of your own conscious.  This is so foundational that it's literally in the Articles of Faith which is saying a lot because they're super short.  (My scholastic bones say I much cite: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1.11?lang=eng#p1).  LDS Christians are also really big into abiding by the rules and being open about intentions.  Something like Josh's covert thing is seen as extremely dirty and un-Christ-like to LDS Christians (sorry Josh, I'm OCD honest and going to call it as it is).  Catholic Christians also don't have that same foundational Article-of-Faith type thing, and don't even acknowledge LDS Christians as being Christian (which obviously LDS Christians acknowledge Catholic Christians as bieng Christian).  

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Jane_Doe2

(Sorry for the many posts and breaking them up.  There's some good comment here, and I want to address them, but not have to write one huge long post).

6 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

Catholics are called to "evangelize".  In practical terms, this means, when Catholics "go on mission," they are building a hospital or school, or digging a well, something like that. 

LDS Christians also do this to, calling it "service".  It's a *MEGA* big deal for LDS Christians.  There's a Book of Mormon verse that says "when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God" and it's a downright motto for LDS Christians.  Literally you'll see this verse printed in huge letters and framed in LDS house and churches.  

When planning activities, at least every third one is a service activity.  Thinking of some example from my own experience just this last year: cleaned up the local city cemetery, built a bridge so that disabled people can go fishing, made baby supplies for the local hospital to give out, hosted homeless people, offer free educational classes, did yard work for an elderly lady, went caroling, etc.  

On 8/9/2019 at 3:47 AM, BarbaraTherese said:

I figure in hope, I can have a bit of license being rather old nowadays (74 years) ......and as an aside, but related to the subject of this thread.  In evangelising efforts, I need to remember that it is Jesus who brings success, not me and no matter how eloquent He might gift me to be - and so I need to keep myself and my efforts close to Him; hence I need to keep my effort(s) reflecting Catholicism in spirit (spirituality).  I may never see the results of any effort I might make, which does NOT mean that my effort or efforts were not successful.  I will find all that out in Heaven and perhaps not before.

^This (generalized to beyond just Catholicism) is a great paragraph, one for all Christians to remember.  The phrase "Preach the Gospel at all times. When necessary, use words.” by St. Francis of Assisi is downright amesome.

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Lilllabettt
2 hours ago, Jane_Doe2 said:

(Sorry for the many posts and breaking them up.  There's some good comment here, and I want to address them, but not have to write one huge long post).

LDS Christians also do this to, calling it "service".  It's a *MEGA* big deal for LDS Christians.  There's a Book of Mormon verse that says "when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God" and it's a downright motto for LDS Christians.  Literally you'll see this verse printed in huge letters and framed in LDS house and churches.  

When planning activities, at least every third one is a service activity.  Thinking of some example from my own experience just this last year: cleaned up the local city cemetery, built a bridge so that disabled people can go fishing, made baby supplies for the local hospital to give out, hosted homeless people, offer free educational classes, did yard work for an elderly lady, went caroling, 

Mormons are extremely service minded. But like I said ... the emphasis of your work is different. Like, above. Mormons see their service and outreach as a means to convert others. This is very common among protestants.

When Mormons do their mission year, it's very much them being sent out to try to get converts. Service is part of that, sure ... but you'd be lying if you'd say proselytizing is not the main emphasis of a mission year. With Catholics, its reversed.

This is not evidence that your religion is wrong, it's just a cultural difference. 1,000 years ago when LDS did not exist, Catholics did have more emphasis on formal conversion to the religion. But today in Catholicism there is a distinction between "proselytizing" and evangelization. The Pope is highly critical of proselytizing.  Mormons dont shy away from using that word to describe what they do, which is a remarkable thing imo.

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Jane_Doe2
2 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

Mormons are extremely service minded. But like I said ... the emphasis of your work is different. Like, above. Mormons see their service and outreach as a means to convert others. This is very common among protestants.

When Mormons do their mission year, it's very much them being sent out to try to get converts. Service is part of that, sure ... but you'd be lying if you'd say proselytizing is not the main emphasis of a mission year. With Catholics, its reversed.

This is not evidence that your religion is wrong, it's just a cultural difference. 1,000 years ago when LDS did not exist, Catholics did have more emphasis on formal conversion to the religion. But today in Catholicism there is a distinction between "proselytizing" and evangelization. The Pope is highly critical of proselytizing.  Mormons dont shy away from using that word to describe what they do, which is a remarkable thing imo.

I actually talked about the different cultural differences approaches to proselytizing/evangelizing/witnessing in an earlier post (I don't know if you saw before you posted this).  

An aside: LDS Christians aren't Protestant Christians, and do have a lot of difference there.

 

Another aside: I like your thoughtful and respectful posts @Lillabettt  

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Lilllabettt
3 hours ago, Jane_Doe2 said:

 

The reason for this is because in the Lord's Prayer, Jesus Christ (the divine Son of God and Savior of the world) instructs us to pray unto the Father.  LDS Christians take this very literally, so hence all prayers are addressed to the Father.  All prayers then end in "in the name of Jesus Christ".  So both Father & Son are included there.  The Spirit is also included as we pray to invite the Spirit and listen for the Spirit 

Curious - does this allow you to have a personal prayer relationship with Jesus? Are you permitted to address him directly, by His holy name? I've always felt pangs for LDS that they consider it a no no to speak to Jesus in the silence of their hearts. I've thought how incredibly hard it would be to believe speaking to Jesus is something wrong... so very different from Catholicism where it's that intimacy that's the source and summit of our life. 

"Listening to the spirit" move in the emotions is primarily how Mormons determine what is true, yes? This is what I mean with the emotionality. It's a form of discernment, but with Roman Catholics, the emphasis is on using the intellect and reason to discern the truth. Example, when I was prostelityzed (a few times) I was told the stirrings of my heart (ie movement of the spirit) when listening to the story of LDS revelation would be how I knew it was true. When Mormons pray they frequently describe it as feeling the spirit moving - an emotional experience.  

Does LDS have a theory of prayer development I wonder? In other words is there a tradition analogous to the "dark night of the soul" that is in Catholic practice?

Edited by Lilllabettt

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Jane_Doe2
1 minute ago, Lilllabettt said:

Curious - does this allow you to have a personal prayer relationship with Jesus? Are you permitted to address him directly, by His holy name? I've always felt pangs for LDS that they consider it a no no to speak to Jesus in the silence of their hearts. I've thought how incredibly hard it would be to believe speaking to Jesus is something wrong... so very different from Catholicism where it's that intimacy that's the source and summit of our life. 

It's not that LDS Christians consider to praying to Jesus to be "wrong".  It's just improper because it's not what Jesus Himself instructed us to do, and we show our love for Him by doing what He asked us to do.    And all prayers literally end in Christ's name.  Prayer is a HUGE part of an LDS Christian's life.  

1 minute ago, Lilllabettt said:

"Listening to the spirit" move in the emotions is primarily how Mormons determine what is true, yes? This is what I mean with the emotionality.  It's a form of discernment, but with Roman Catholics, the emphasis is on using the intellect and reason to discern the truth. Example, when I was prostelityzed (a few times) I was told the stirrings of my heart (ie movement of the spirit) when listening to the story of LDS revelation would be how I knew it was true. When Mormons pray they frequently describe it as feeling the spirit moving - an emotional experience.  

I feel it's important to draw the distinction between listening to the Spirit (which is a huge part of discernment) and just you being emotional.  They are two different things.  

When you say "being emotional"... I think of my 5 year old daughter who gets frustrated and yell "I'm angry!" while literally stamping her foot on the ground.  That's not the Spirit.  

Versus listening to the Spirit is... running with a personal example here: last week I was in a major stuck-spot at work.  I just couldn't figure something out, and it was causing a lot of trouble for months.    Emotionally I felt... frustrated, angry and just fed up.  I felt a prompting from the Spirit "You should call your old friend Ken and ask for his help".  Just that gentle nudge.  Well, I haven't talked to Ken in years and to my knowledge he didn't have the knowledge I need.  But I called him, and he goes "hey, can I do this project for you?  Right here, right now, for free.  I have a job interview Monday that is literally on this type of project and I would love to be able to use this as a portfolio example."

 

 

As to using intellect and studying things out: LDS Christian do that too.  It's just has proportionally less emphasis than Catholic Christians place on it.  Same as Catholic Christians also do believe in listening to the Spirit, but with less emphasis that a LDS Christian.  

1 minute ago, Lilllabettt said:

Does LDS have a theory of prayer development I wonder? In other words is their a tradition analogous to the "dark night of the soul" that is in Catholic practice?

Learning how to pray & listen to the Spirit is a HUGE part of spiritual development for an LDS Christian.  If fact I would possibly say it the number 1 biggest piece of spiritual development.  There's a whole bunch of different techniques to help different people-- as we each do think and experience things differently.  It's a part of discipleship that you continue to work on throughout your life.

Aside: I had to Google the phrase "dark night of the soul" for this response and learned some cool stuff about Catholic traditions.  Thank you for that.  

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7 hours ago, Jane_Doe2 said:

Josh, if you want to talk to me, then YOU have to talk TO ME.  I don't talk to unthinking videos or memes.  

Tbh not extremely interested at the moment after the personal message you sent the other day. Although glad you're here. The videos aren't meant for you to talk to. They're meant for you to listen. Often God gets his message across that way through the Holy Spirit. Silence and listening can be of great value. I know from experience. Peace be with you. 

Edited by Josh

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Jane_Doe2
4 minutes ago, Josh said:

Tbh not extremely interested after the personal message you sent the other day. 

*shrug*  Not much I can do if me being honest and giving you a heads up upset you.

4 minutes ago, Josh said:

The videos aren't meant for you to talk to. There meant for you to listen. 

Josh, I'm not an idiot, nor uneducated.  Please don't treat me as such.

I've study Catholicism for years.  Not from YouTube videos, but by actually walking my butt into a Catholic Church, sitting on the pew, and honestly listening.   I attended Stations of the Cross for over a decade.   When there is something I don't ask questions directly, and thank people when I do learn something new (like the "dark night of the soul" thing earlier).  I honestly enjoy learning about what other people believe, even if I don't share those beliefs and never will. 

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1 minute ago, Jane_Doe2 said:

shrug*  Not much I can do if me being honest and giving you a heads up upset you

Didn't upset me lol Reminded me of Midsommar.

 

2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe2 said:

Josh, I'm not an idiot, nor uneducated.  Please don't treat me as such.

I don't think you're neither. I'm not treating you as such.

 

4 minutes ago, Jane_Doe2 said:

I've study Catholicism for years.  Not from YouTube videos, but by actually walking my butt into a Catholic Church, sitting on the pew, and honestly listening.   I attended Stations of the Cross for over a decade.   When there is something I don't ask questions directly, and thank people when I do learn something new (like the "dark night of the soul" thing earlier).  I honestly enjoy learning about what other people believe, even if I don't share those beliefs and never will. 

This is dope. Respect. You are a female? May I ask how old?

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Seven77
1 hour ago, Jane_Doe2 said:

I've study Catholicism for years.  Not from YouTube videos, but by actually walking my butt into a Catholic Church, sitting on the pew, and honestly listening.   I attended Stations of the Cross for over a decade.   When there is something I don't ask questions directly, and thank people when I do learn something new (like the "dark night of the soul" thing earlier).  I honestly enjoy learning about what other people believe, even if I don't share those beliefs and never will. 

That's very interesting. Were there any things in particular that you wondered about? Also, I know that's not what you're doing but please do not discount the value of learning from reliable solid material on YouTube and other forms of media. Experiential knowledge is best, but supplemental  knowledge from books and media are indispensable because they help to foster that experiential knowledge… And eventually love. As a lifelong Catholic, I continue to learn.

The things about discernment and such, I think that St. Ignatius of Loyola had much to offer here.

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Jane_Doe2
2 hours ago, Josh said:

I don't think you're neither. I'm not treating you as such.

When you post things like I've never heard someone critical of LDS beliefs, or somebody pro-Catholic, it gives that impression. 

2 hours ago, Josh said:

This is dope. Respect. 

:)  Respect is a big deal for me, along with getting my facts straight from primary high-quality sources (more on this in my reply to Seven77's comment).  

2 hours ago, Josh said:

You are a female? May I ask how old?

Female yes, middle aged.  

 For me, a big deal is getting my facts straight and going to high quality primary sources.  Hence my learning about Catholicism straight from Catholics.  I attend Mass, chat with knowledgeable Catholics (layman and priests), read CCC, read high quality Catholic commentaries (like stuff written by Saints), etc.  

YouTube videos can be... some can be good, but there's a lot of trashy ones out there too.  I don't need to watch a video about "____ faith exposed!" or something downright bashing.  I'd rather something that's primary source, respectful, and factual.  *Thinking of an example recent video I have watched*... when Notre Dome had that tragic fire, I did watch a video covering it and several videos on the history of the cathedral (videos put out by reputable Catholic sources and caretakers of the cathedral).  

And yes, continuing to learn is a GREAT thing!  Learn about God, learn about ourselves, learn about our fellow man, and so many other things.  

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Seven77
41 minutes ago, Jane_Doe2 said:

When you post things like I've never heard someone critical of LDS beliefs, or somebody pro-Catholic, it gives that impression. 

:)  Respect is a big deal for me, along with getting my facts straight from primary high-quality sources (more on this in my reply to Seven77's comment).  

Female yes, middle aged.  

 For me, a big deal is getting my facts straight and going to high quality primary sources.  Hence my learning about Catholicism straight from Catholics.  I attend Mass, chat with knowledgeable Catholics (layman and priests), read CCC, read high quality Catholic commentaries (like stuff written by Saints), etc.  

YouTube videos can be... some can be good, but there's a lot of trashy ones out there too.  I don't need to watch a video about "____ faith exposed!" or something downright bashing.  I'd rather something that's primary source, respectful, and factual.  *Thinking of an example recent video I have watched*... when Notre Dome had that tragic fire, I did watch a video covering it and several videos on the history of the cathedral (videos put out by reputable Catholic sources and caretakers of the cathedral).  

And yes, continuing to learn is a GREAT thing!  Learn about God, learn about ourselves, learn about our fellow man, and so many other things.  

 There is never enough learning.Definitely.

For sure, not everything on the Internet can be trusted.It is very important to get your facts straight from high quality resources. ( it seems that you really know where to go for solid teaching about Catholic teaching… I can recommend more if you wish) And I agree, that there  is a lot of trashy stuff on YouTube, incorrect stuff, gossiping, lack of charity, and bashing, etc.  You know, one of the things I really respect about Mormons is that they are generally very kind people.

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1 hour ago, Jane_Doe2 said:

 I don't need to watch a video about "____ faith exposed!" or something downright bashing.  

Luckily that's not what I posted. 

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