Aloysius Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 (edited) THE ISSUE IT ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL BOILS DOWN TO I'm 2 tired to make a good leading argument, someone else must do that, but i'm sure Catholics and Protestants alike all have their arguments, so post away. THis thread is about authority. Who has the authority to decide what the Book of Whatever means when it says this that and the other thing Pax et Amo Christi! Edited August 30, 2003 by Aloysius
[jas] Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 The Bible, the word of God, is authoritative. End of Story. Yes, the Holy Spirit speaks to us outside of the bible (like he may tell me to go and tell someone that he loves them or something) but if it contradicts anything that the bible says, then it's not from God.
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 but who got to say what went into the bible and who didn't? who preserved it all these years? who wrote the bible? who are the authors? :unsure:
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 and where does it say that in the bible? that if its not written in the bible, its not true? just a couple of questions.......:)
Aloysius Posted August 30, 2003 Author Posted August 30, 2003 and what does the Bible mean? i could take any old scripture and interpret it several ways. What am i 2 do if i read a scripture and think it means one thing while another person reads it and thinks it means another thing. We both prayed to the Holy Spirit for guidance, yet we find our contradictory views in a Bible which does not contradict itself.
[jas] Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 and where does it say that in the bible? that if its not written in the bible, its not true? I didn't say that. I said if something contradicts the bible it's not true.
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 so its all contradicting each other.... but God did not leave us to be confused...so how can this be?
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 i know we're asking alot of questions thanks guys if you answer them...... and what happened to all those ppl who were not able to get a bible because the scripture was preserved and not published and printed yet? how did the Word of God get spread? God is NOT contained by a book...His God! the bible didn't get printed for all till the printing press was invented!
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 ,Aug 30 2003, 12:30 AM] I didn't say that. I said if something contradicts the bible it's not true. but where does it say that?
[jas] Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 Are you calling God (who wrote the bible) a liar?
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 so again..... Where does Jesus or the apostles say the Bible is the sole rule of faith?
[jas] Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 And on all the contradition questions: What's the alternative? Have a group of *people* with higher auhority than *God's word* because they tell us how we have to interpret everything in it? No thank you.
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 but it doesn't say anywhere in there that it is the sole factor does it? :unsure:
[jas] Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 so again..... Where does Jesus or the apostles say the Bible is the sole rule of faith? You're reading something into my words that I didn't say. What I said was that because the bible is the word of God, it must be true. (and because it is the word of God, it has authority) Therefore, if something contradicts what the bible says, it's not true. You know, to the best of my knowledge, the bible doesn't mention kangaroos. Does that mean that someone saying that kangaroos exist is a liar? Of course not. The fact that they exist doesn't contradict the bible. But if someone says that Jesus was only a man, then that contradicts the bible, because the bible says that He is the Son of God.
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 ah! but what your missing is Sacred Tradition nothing and i repeat nothing of the catholic church contradicts scripture we wrote it ;)
Aloysius Posted August 30, 2003 Author Posted August 30, 2003 ,Aug 30 2003, 12:33 AM] Are you calling God (who wrote the bible) a liar? i didn't see anyone call God a liar. The Bible is infallible. But, there are some things that could be interpreted any which way we please. Say 4 example, the Eucharist. We interpret it to be literal. You cannot, with the Bible alone, prove that it is not literal. With the Bible alone, we cannot prove that it is literal (Catholics jump out of their seats "yes we can!" that's not the point im makin here though) FROM 2 Peter 20 12 Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, 21 for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God. it is not a matter of personal interpretation. Other versions say private interpretation. Same difference. human will clouds our thoughts 2 much. Thus, there is a Church led by God in the Holy Spirit through the hierarchy of the Church to guide it and keep it from teaching error. The Spirit of Truth leads us into all Truth which is contained in the scriptures but cannot be taken from the scriptures with personal interpretation, only with CHurch interpretation guided by the Spirit of Truth Pax et Amo Christi!
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 thats why they are so many demons they are all saying different stuff how i can believe that the eucharist is for real when others (of a differ religion) think its not? we have scripture to follow, thus confusion and as a result millions of different religions claiming "their own" where is the unity of that?
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 now in the Catholic Church, it is unity catholic means universal God's Church will not be only for Baptists in Texas or even Methodists in Canada but rather a Church for the world and even then no two baptist think or believe the same the only church that is world-wide is the Catholic Church and is in unity in belief, tradition and doctorine thats what catholic means B)
[jas] Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 Something I forgot to add (which is probably going to be controversial, even amongst my group, oh well) The bible is God's word to all of us. No one has any excuse for not taking notice of what He says in the bible. Gos speaks to us outside of the bible, and we better obey Him if He does, but because God says *I* have to do something, doesn't make that true for everyone. Say God tells me to go and pray for someone during church, doesn't neccesarily mean He wants everyone to go and pray for everyone else if you know what I mean. So this tradition is all good, and quite probably inspired by the Holy Spirit. But seeing as it's not written in the bible, I don't believe that it's neccesary for all Christians to follow it. (Although if it helps you in your journey with God, amesome!)
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