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Pope endorses civil unions for gay couples?


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“Homosexual people have the right to be in a family. They are children of God,” Francis said in one of his sit-down interviews for the film. “You can't kick someone out of a family, nor make their life miserable for this. What we have to have is a civil union law; that way they are legally covered.”

"While serving as archbishop of Buenos Aires, Francis endorsed civil unions for gay couples as an alternative to same-sex marriages. However, he had never come out publicly in favor of civil unions as pope."

"Catholic Church teaching holds that gays must be treated with dignity and respect but that homosexual acts are “intrinsically disordered.” A 2003 document from the Vatican’s doctrine office stated that the church’s respect for gays “cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behavior or to legal recognition of homosexual unions.” That document was signed by the then-prefect of the office, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the future Pope Benedict XVI and Francis’ predecessor."

https://www.wtol.com/article/news/nation-world/pope-endorses-same-sex-civil-unions-in-new-documentary-film/507-f525e738-2ef1-4a35-8c00-053e160432df?fbclid=IwAR2XkrsJyV29cqiD7ltplNJF52lls_Li9wMdKRLmNK-YrfsH4sD3We9XKms

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He makes things harder on people trying to be faithful Catholics. We're told one minute we need to uphold traditional marriage and for that we get the fun prize of getting "bigot" and "homophobe" fois

The Bishop of Rome is indeed a very strong symbol and a tool of the unity of the Catholic Church which over centuries has been working as such despite the sins (sometimes outrageous) of particular Pop

I have a hard time with "endorsing gay civil unions".  The couple in this union would very likely not be Catholic.  And if they were and they were in a civil union (or civil marriage here) they would

15 minutes ago, linate said:

 

“Homosexual people have the right to be in a family. They are children of God,” Francis said in one of his sit-down interviews for the film. “You can't kick someone out of a family, nor make their life miserable for this. What we have to have is a civil union law; that way they are legally covered.”

"While serving as archbishop of Buenos Aires, Francis endorsed civil unions for gay couples as an alternative to same-sex marriages. However, he had never come out publicly in favor of civil unions as pope."

"Catholic Church teaching holds that gays must be treated with dignity and respect but that homosexual acts are “intrinsically disordered.” A 2003 document from the Vatican’s doctrine office stated that the church’s respect for gays “cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behavior or to legal recognition of homosexual unions.” That document was signed by the then-prefect of the office, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the future Pope Benedict XVI and Francis’ predecessor."

https://www.wtol.com/article/news/nation-world/pope-endorses-same-sex-civil-unions-in-new-documentary-film/507-f525e738-2ef1-4a35-8c00-053e160432df?fbclid=IwAR2XkrsJyV29cqiD7ltplNJF52lls_Li9wMdKRLmNK-YrfsH4sD3We9XKms

It's an interesting topic. A civil union law, depending on how it is written, does not necessarily have to "lead to approval of homosexual behavior or to legal recognition of homosexual unions.” Generally speaking you can draft a civil union law that is neutral when it comes to homosexuality.

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I don't necessarily disagree with civil union laws if they can be written in a way that doesn't involve sex. For example, what if me and my brother could never find a girlfriend and grew up as ugly, lazy, losers. We, as brothers, should be able to live in the same house and have some laws that can help us with civil issues. I'm hoping this is as far as the pope's endorsement goes. Gay people, like all sinners, shouldn't be discriminated against or shouldn't be denied the same legal protections as any other person.

Now, if these laws extend extra benefits simply for being gay, and me and my brother (in the example above), wouldn't be able to take advantage of the same benefits because we are not gay--that would be problematic.

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5 minutes ago, dUSt said:

I don't necessarily disagree with civil union laws if they can be written in a way that doesn't involve sex. For example, what if me and my brother could never find a girlfriend and grew up as ugly, lazy, losers. We, as brothers, should be able to live in the same house and have some laws that can help us with civil issues. I'm hoping this is as far as the pope's endorsement goes. Gay people, like all sinners, shouldn't be discriminated against or shouldn't be denied the same legal protections as any other person.

Now, if these laws extend extra benefits simply for being gay, and me and my brother (in the example above), wouldn't be able to take advantage of the same benefits because we are not gay--that would be problematic.

good point

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Homosexuals have the right to contract as any others, as such, a legal union cannot be denied.

However, let this not encroach on the sanctity of marriage.

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Any direction toward this will only be bad for everyone.  People here are right, it could be worded in a way that's not directly sinful, but it can only mean a weakening of the sacred institution of marriage.

Brothers should never be considered partners in anything but a business relationship.  There shouldn't even be discussion about a "civil union" in cases like this.

This is one point that pro-homo Trump and Pope Francis are probably in agreement on, and I can't support either of them in this.

45 minutes ago, Didacus said:

Homosexuals have the right to contract as any others, as such, a legal union cannot be denied.

It can if they expect that legal union to be contracted between each other, and not members of the opposite sex.

4 hours ago, Peace said:

Generally speaking you can draft a civil union law that is neutral when it comes to homosexuality.

Specifically speaking, any civil union law right now should not be neutral when it comes to homosexuality.  Neutrality in this matter is sinful.

1 hour ago, dUSt said:

Gay people, like all sinners, shouldn't be discriminated against or shouldn't be denied the same legal protections as any other person.

Anyone who wants to get married to a person of the opposite sex should be free to do so.  And that's fair to everyone.

However, not all sins are equal.  Murderers and rapists should not have the same freedoms as other people.  I honestly don't know how this principle should be applied to homosexuals, but it's important to note that there is a distinction to be made.

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13 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

Specifically speaking, any civil union law right now should not be neutral when it comes to homosexuality.  Neutrality in this matter is sinful.

Nonsense.

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My kneejerk concern is how the pope endorsing civil unions will send people in different wings of the Church off the deep end either way -- some feeling so scandalized that they go the way of schism or sedevacantism, and others using it as justification or validation of heterodox beliefs and false hope that the Church's teaching on the sanctity of marriage can and will change.

All this said, the problems of poor catechesis or confusion is, sadly, nothing new. 

 

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One good thing about the pandemic is it seemed to have put a moratorium on this stuff. 

I think I had one good year of me not waking up with a sense of dread over what might have been said or done overnight and what gymnastics might be required to make sense of it. Did PF decide to zip it? Or did he just become irrelevant to the media against the backdrop of global catastrophe? Almost 1 year of peace.

Please God can we not go back to that daily dread... All Popes have their share of unforced errors. They all step in it. But this is exhausting. 

My bishop is cardinal cupich. He goes on and on about how awful it is people openly resist PF. Gave a train wreck interview where he blamed it on people being racist to PF. Unity unity unity he says.  So important. Well have you tried not being divisive, to see if that helps?

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KnightofChrist
7 minutes ago, Ice_nine said:

you gonna become protestant? orthodox?

In as much as it can be done without losing the Faith, I am done with Pope Francis. Likely an unsatisfactory answer but the best I have at present.

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“ 1. The Church teaches that respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual unions. The common good requires that laws recognize, promote and protect marriage as the basis of the family, the primary unit of society. Legal recognition of homosexual unions or placing them on the same level as marriage would mean not only the approval of deviant behaviour, with the consequence of making it a model in present-day society, but would also obscure basic values which belong to the common inheritance of humanity. The Church cannot fail to defend these values, for the good of men and women and for the good of society itself.”

https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html 10

Unfortunately, Pope Francis appears to be driven by his desire to be liked by the world while the primary "drive" of any Christian must be Christ. It is becoming harder to remain "straight" i.e. to say "yes, yes", "no, no" in this world without being frowned upon.

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