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Minority attempt to subvert and command


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19 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

I agree with what you're saying, but this nonstory created exactly the kind of fear that they will now use to get rid of Trump for good.  Prison time is coming, and not just for him, but for his supporters, too.

Given that virtually all leaders of the left continued promoting the 2020 riots (which caused 10-20 billion dollars of damage, some estimates go higher) for months, the hypocrisy of their response to the 10-20 thousand dollars worth of damage in the capitol is appalling (I'm sure the number they give eventually will be multiplied many times to give airs).  In terms of dollars and cents, the left's riots in 2020 were literally a million times worse.  The capitol is a public building, and in a sense, is owned by all citizens.  The thousands of destroyed businesses and homes in the 2020 riots were most certainly not.  And there is proof that at least one of the violent rioters in the capitol was antifa (there is conflicting evidence about a few others).

None of the higher-ups in the media really denounced the riotous activities that ended in dozens of peoples' deaths and countless lives completely destroyed, even after months of the same stuff (there were a few scattered, hushed statements by the left that ended up buried).  Many in the media said they didn't go far enough.  Trump denounced the protest in the capitol within 1 hour (which Twitter deleted in the next hour), and all they can say is that he didn't act fast enough.  They accuse him of inciting violence by saying Americans should fight for their freedom, while they hold up pictures of grotesque decapitated Trump doll heads (on multiple occasions), and call for burning down people's homes, and make active death threats, and angrily confronting private citizens and public officials, and call for actual murderers to go free from prison while at the same time call for people to be imprisoned simply for not wearing a mask.  They have murdered billions of babies (1.5 billion since the 60s) while attacking, certainly verbally and often physically, the very people who are begging them to let them adopt their kids, just to save them from murder.  

If anyone still thinks Trump is the enemy, they're blind.

 

Let's not forget they also murdered a cop. And another committed "suicide by cop"; I mean loosely speaking, killed herself by force of her own stupidity, compelling a cop to shoot her as she advanced on him in the manner of a feral animal through a busted window. Not to mention the disease they spread, so desirous were they of exercising their precious right to mass demonstrate. 

You are correct that the mob changed nothing nor do I believe they ever intended to change anything. It was play for them, a WWE match all fun and fantasy, except the violence was real.  A threat to democracy they were not.  This summers "direct action" on the other hand. Those rioters are making change happen, forcing democratically elected governments to bend to their will. 

 

 

 

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With respect, it might be a matter of perspective, but I do not regard current events in America as a non-story.  To me, it is an unprecedented attack on the democratic process and an unfolding situat

With all due respect, you’re a little old lady, a hemisphere away, getting her news through a biased media.    The violence is not acceptable, but at the root of the discontent is how different s

Thank goodness no one there took a knee... then it *really* woulda been horrible...

8 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

You are correct that the mob changed nothing nor do I believe they ever intended to change anything. It was play for them, a WWE match all fun and fantasy, except the violence was real.  A threat to democracy they were not.  This summers "direct action" on the other hand. Those rioters are making change happen, forcing democratically elected governments to bend to their will. 

Exactly.  This fact is clear-as-day, and people just can't see it.

Well, I do think they changed something - they gave new strength and vigor to the false accusations against Trump, and directly or indirectly, to all conservatives.  A real persecution is coming soon.

 

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At this point anyway, I am going to back out of this thread.  The direction the thread has taken is quite obvious I think, and a quite sad and familiar circular motion has taken over.

Much is asked of most everyone today that prioritizing is needed, or what really is important is abandoned for what is futile and pointless.

 

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On 1/13/2021 at 9:53 PM, Lilllabettt said:

You are correct that the mob changed nothing nor do I believe they ever intended to change anything. It was play for them, a WWE match all fun and fantasy, except the violence was real.

You honestly don't think that certain members of the mob did not have an earnest intention to change the result of the vote?

That seems to be a bit unreasonable, given that Trump has been attempting to overturn the result of the vote for the past month, and that his general indications to the crowd were to protest in order achieve this result.

I mean, if "WWE fun and fantasy" were the only goal here, that could have been accomplished anywhere. In the streets of DC. On the White House Lawn. In front of the capital. There is no need to violently storm your way into the building, start killing people, and physically threaten the people tallying the vote, if you just want a bit of fun and fantasy.  I don't think this aspect of your conclusion makes much sense.

But let me ask you - what type of evidence would convince you that some members of the mob had a true intention to change the result? I mean, do they need to swear an Oath on the Bible that says "I am committing this violence because I do not want Biden elected, so help me God"? What else would you need to see exactly?

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6 hours ago, Peace said:

You honestly don't think that certain members of the mob did not have an earnest intention to change the result of the vote?

That seems to be a bit unreasonable, given that Trump has been attempting to overturn the result of the vote for the past month, and that his general indications to the crowd were to protest in order achieve this result.

I mean, if "WWE fun and fantasy" were the only goal here, that could have been accomplished anywhere. In the streets of DC. On the White House Lawn. In front of the capital. There is no need to violently storm your way into the building, start killing people, and physically threaten the people tallying the vote, if you just want a bit of fun and fantasy.  I don't think this aspect of your conclusion makes much sense.

But let me ask you - what type of evidence would convince you that some members of the mob had a true intention to change the result? I mean, do they need to swear an Oath on the Bible that says "I am committing this violence because I do not want Biden elected, so help me God"? What else would you need to see exactly?

Mmm I dunno, a vaguely realistic if vanishingly small prospect of success, to start with. Maybe there would have been a longer delay before the invention of computers or telephones? And copy machines? I'm not sure you understand the 10 weird tricks for executing a succesful coup ... you need like literally, an army. A collection of brawling mental midgets with criminal records and alternative lifestyles won't cut it. 

This is, for Trump and the Maga crew, an elaborate face saving exercise in "lost cause" narrative making. I don't understand the part you wrote about the location of their mostly peaceful but fiery protest? Where else would they role play their fantasy?

This past summer in Wisconsin Minnesota Washington and Oregon, there was the trend of barricading police stations with people inside and setting them on fire. One of my neighbors (I live in a cop neighborhood) caught two peaceful protestors in his backyard pouring out a gas cannister. These activities were undertaken with the understanding that there existed a realistic chance of success in using terror to compel the government to make political changes favorable to criminals. In many places, including my state, this has been actually achieved. It's called domestic terrorism, we've lived thru it. 

There was never any realistic chance, not even a small one, that the mob on "stop the steal" day was going to succesfully stop "the steal." They could have blown up the building itself, killing everyone inside. Trump would still not be president.  It's not like, if Congress doesn't certify by Jan 20, Trump stays in office. It's troubling if people think interruptions in arcane parliamentary procedure portend the collapse of the federal government.  But actually I don't think people - whether capitol invading Maga types or breathless pearl clutching reporters- actually think this. This is just a fantasy people indulge to suit the narrative they prefer.  

 

 

 

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I dunno, there seems to be a closeness qualitatively, though perhaps somewhat more distant quantitatively, between a violent and angry group storming the the capitol, and an actual full on military coup. A more competent demagogue might have even been successful given the same scenario.

Throw a couple disgruntled general into the mix along with some troops loyal to them, bring a few key transportation and media hubs into play, now you have a junta.

That is no wilder than some of the garbage I have seen peddled by some conservatives lately.

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