thessalonian Posted July 7, 2004 Posted July 7, 2004 Is some of the Bible unneccessary for our salvatoin. Many of you believe that the Bible is a book that contains instructions for our salvation. (to a degree I agree with that) i.e. The Bible contains everything neccessary for our salvation. Now for those of you who believe either in once saved always saved or what I would call eternal security it seems to me few who would be considered "saved" have read and understand the whole Bible. Yet, it is my understanding that you would still consider them "saved". So does that mean that many of these "saving" verses are uneccessary?
Archbishop 10-K Posted July 7, 2004 Posted July 7, 2004 Well, it's apparent that few Christians, Catholic or not, are familiar with the book of Nahum, or even Leviticus and Numbers. Many Bibles that are distributed are New Testament-only. However, just because we haven't read these books doesn't mean we're not saved. So, I guess parts of the Bible really are "unnecessary." Remember, before 400 A.D., Christians didn't even have Bibles. The Bible did NOT fall from the sky. I don't think anyone's knowledge of the Scriptures guarantees their salvation. In the same way, a Catholic doesn't need to read the Catechism or be able to cite Canon Law or Church Fathers to be saved (but it certainly helps.) However, if you want to have a stronger connection with the Lord, then by all means, read the Scriptures.
crusader1234 Posted July 7, 2004 Posted July 7, 2004 Well, whether its imprtant or not, its from God, and why would we just throw that away?
thessalonian Posted July 7, 2004 Author Posted July 7, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jul 7 2004, 06:09 PM'] Well, whether its imprtant or not, its from God, and why would we just throw that away? [/quote] Oh amen. The Bible is very important. It is the third leg of the truth that keeps us in the truth.
p0lar_bear Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 I don't think I'd say that any part of the Bible is "unnecessary." It's obvious that some parts are more central to the faith than others. For example, it's much more important to know that Jesus died and rose again than it is to know that Paul preached to the Galatians. That doesn't mean that any part is unnecessary though, it all contributes to our faith, it all reveals God as He truly is. [i]Gaudiem et Spes[/i] no. 11 tells us: [quote]In composing the sacred books, God chose men... consigned to writing everything and only those things which He wanted.[/quote] Everything in Scripture is there because God wants it to be, because it is part of His revelation. In as much as God felt it necessary to reveal these things to us, they are necessary.
BurkeFan Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 According to Luther and Calvin, no, not everything was important. That's why they could throw books out.
conservativecatholic Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 [quote]According to Luther and Calvin, no, not everything was important. That's why they could throw books out.[/quote] Amen BurkeFan! I appreciate that people agree with me on that one. The Catholic Church does [u]not[/u] have extra books in The Holy Bible; The Protestants ripped them out. I saw that BIAS BIAS BIAS movie, Luther, and it showed him crumpling up books in the bible that were not originally written in Hebrew. Weird... isn't he.
Hananiah Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 Vatican II's [i]Dei Verbum[/i] states that the Bible "teaches without error that truth which God wanted put into the sacred writings for the sake of our salvation." This phrase admits of two possible interpretations: (1) the Bible is immune from error in everything it says, and everything it says God wanted there for the sake of our salvation, and (2) The Bible is immune from error in so far as it teaches about salvation, but can err when it treats of other topics. Obviously, the former interpretation harmonizes Vatican II with the larger body of Catholic Tradition, whereas the latter sets the two in opposition. Thus all faithful Catholics should adopt the former. Finally, if even that is not enough to convince the die-hard fans of Fr. Raymond Brown, the Council Fathers let it be known how they intended this phrase to be interpreted by referencing in its footnote various writings of St. Augustine, all of which endorse the total inerrancy of Scripture. So yes, everything in the Bible God wanted there for the sake of our salvation.
Aloysius Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 lol well, actually, doesn't scott hahn say that even all those lists of ppl if you get in depth enough means something to us as well?
Hananiah Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 8 2004, 01:08 AM'] Are you including the entire book of Numbers [/quote] The talking donkey scene is one of my favorite parts of the Bible.
crusader1234 Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 If it weren't for Numbers, we wouldnt know why we should care why Methuselah lived to 969 years old or whatever. So YES.
carrdero Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 In all actuality and someone has done the math. That if the Bible is the place to go if you want to know about GOD only 16%!!!! has any relevant information about who or what GOD is. 16%!!!! The rest is filled with epic battles, personal prayers to GOD, and historical documents. Which if I may say has no particular impact in my life at this moment.
Aloysius Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 they have no impact on your life? the stories of Israel, God's Chosen People, and the great things God did for them, have no impact on your life? the story of Adam and Eve that teaches us about good and evil (as well as affirm a primeval event which took place) has no impact on your life? what about the psalms, the proverbs, the stories of great man standing up for what is True despite all odds and trusting in the Lord... I'm sorry but not a jot or tittle of those Sacred Words is unimportant. 100% of it teaches us who God is. Even those battles and events teach us about who God is. provide me one example that wouldn't have something to teach you, and I'll try to help you understand that it does have something to teach you (excluding the generation-listing)
God Conquers Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 16%? That is a ridiculous number, and I'm sure is made up. Every battle, every prayer, tells us about God. All the actions and movements of prophets and apostles tell us about God.
carrdero Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 Whoa whoa easy there people, don't want you to think that I am disregarding the Bible all I am saying is that I have read better books about GOD and soaked in other matters of spiritual TRUTH other than the Bible. I apologize I didn't mean to offend it is just not my era, it is not my interest (in all honesty I do not like war movies either). The times in the Bible are just not my times and it really does nothing to strengthen or weaken my realtionship with GOD.
Aloysius Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 the Bible is timeless. the Bible is God's word. the best place to learn about God is through His revelation.
Apotheoun Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 (edited) As Vatican 2 teaches, "Those divinely revealed realities which are contained and presented in Sacred Scripture have been committed to writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. For Holy Mother Church, relying on the belief of the Apostles (see John 20:31; 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Peter 1:19-20, 3:15-16), holds that the books of both the Old and New Testaments [b][i]in their entirety, with all their parts[/i][/b], are sacred and canonical because written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author and have been handed on as such to the Church herself. In composing the sacred books, God chose men and while employed by Him they made use of their powers and abilities, so that with Him acting in them and through them, they, as true authors, [b][i]consigned to writing everything and only those things which He wanted[/i][/b]. Therefore, since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers [b][i]must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation[/i][/b]. Therefore 'all Scripture is divinely inspired and has its use for teaching the truth and refuting error, for reformation of manners and discipline in right living, so that the man who belongs to God may be efficient and equipped for good work of every kind' (2 Tim. 3:16-17, Greek text)." [Vatican 2, Dogmatic Constitution [u]Dei Verbum[/u], no. 11] Thus, all of Scripture is inspired and canonical, and it follows that it is all necessary for our salvation. This means that all that Scripture asserts, whether it concerns spiritual, moral, historical, or other realities, is true, because all that is asserted is asserted by God Himself, who can neither deceive nor be deceived. [cf. Vatican 1, Dogmatic Constitution [u]Dei Filius[/u], chaps. 2 and 3] Finally, it is important to remember that it is a [i]de fide[/i] doctrine that Scripture, in its entirety and in all of its parts, is the inerrant word of God. Edited July 28, 2004 by Apotheoun
catholicguy Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 [quote]i.e. The Bible contains everything neccessary for our salvation.[/quote] No... where in the Bible is the Assumption defined? It is not; therefore, the Bible does not contain everything we need to salvation, for to reject this doctrine is a mortal sin against Faith for which one is damned.
Aloysius Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 that was his example of the sola scriptura position.
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