Is The Death Penalty Ever Necessary In Our Society

[qfnol31]

I didn't know what to say to whether or not it is necessary today.

[StColette]

I don't like the Death penalty whatsoever. It is not the choice of humanity to decide who's life should be taken for any reason. And I know that the Catechism says the following:

[quote]2267 Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent."[/quote]

there are those "rare" "very very rare" cases that may call for it, but I still do not approve of it.

Edited July 8, 2004 by StColette

[Aloysius]

I recomend reading this

[url="http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0104/articles/dulles.html"]http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0104...les/dulles.html[/url]

[Aloysius]

at the end it gives ten main points

[quote]1) The purpose of punishment in secular courts is fourfold: the rehabilitation of the criminal, the protection of society from the criminal, the deterrence of other potential criminals, and retributive justice.

2) Just retribution, which seeks to establish the right order of things, should not be confused with vindictiveness, which is reprehensible.

3) Punishment may and should be administered with respect and love for the person punished.

4) The person who does evil may deserve death. According to the biblical accounts, God sometimes administers the penalty himself and sometimes directs others to do so.

5) Individuals and private groups may not take it upon themselves to inflict death as a penalty.

6) The State has the right, in principle, to inflict capital punishment in cases where there is no doubt about the gravity of the offense and the guilt of the accused.

7) The death penalty should not be imposed if the purposes of punishment can be equally well or better achieved by bloodless means, such as imprisonment.

8) The sentence of death may be improper if it has serious negative effects on society, such as miscarriages of justice, the increase of vindictiveness, or disrespect for the value of innocent human life.

9) Persons who specially represent the Church, such as clergy and religious, in view of their specific vocation, should abstain from pronouncing or executing the sentence of death.

10) Catholics, in seeking to form their judgment as to whether the death penalty is to be supported as a general policy, or in a given situation, should be attentive to the guidance of the pope and the bishops. Current Catholic teaching should be understood, as I have sought to understand it, in continuity with Scripture and tradition.

[/quote]

[Iacobus]

I don't think it is. Plus I think it is more of a just punishment to let them wait for God.

[RemnantRules]

Well i'm sure Zach will talk more in detail about this.

Hey Zach make sure you tell about the Bin Laden scenario dude!

[qfnol31]

My question was if Bin Laden were captured, would it be better for us to keep him alive and risk lots of innocent lives because of terrorism, or should he be given the death penalty?

Same with Saddam.

[cmotherofpirl]

I believe if you deliberately take the life of another human being [excluding war] that you forfeit your right to life.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 8 2004, 08:40 AM'] I believe if you deliberately take the life of another human being [excluding war] that you forfeit your right to life. [/quote]

[ironmonk]

It is necessary sometimes to use the death penalty to protect society.

If Osama Bin Laden is captured - and not put to death - then hostages would be taken left and right to get them to release him.

It is not as needed as it has been used.

Since 1976 about 840 people have been put to death.

Some who have not been put to death, have been released... only to kill more people.

I think the death penalty problem is miniscule to the abortion problem. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[Lil Red]

the problem is that there are so many cases out there now where people's supposed "guilt" is shown by DNA or other forensic evidence, that the person is innocent. if we keep executing people who are innocent, what does that make us? (i'm obviously not talking about Saddam or Osama)

[ClaireBear]

I think this is what the Pope says about it... The death penalty is immoral, because God is the author of life. There is an exception, and it comes into play in a "rare, if not practically nonexistent situation when a prisoner cannot be contained and is a threat to society." This would apply, for example, in a third world country, where they don't have adequate and secure jails. This is not true in the United States, we have (can I use this word?) "great" jails, and therefore should not be legal. Something that's really interesting to think about is that it actually costs more to execute a person than to imprison them for life.

[ClaireBear]

and I just read scrolled up and StColette said basically the same thing... sorry

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='ClaireBear' date='Jul 8 2004, 12:39 PM'] I think this is what the Pope says about it... The death penalty is immoral, because God is the author of life. There is an exception, and it comes into play in a "rare, if not practically nonexistent situation when a prisoner cannot be contained and is a threat to society." This would apply, for example, in a third world country, where they don't have adequate and secure jails. This is not true in the United States, we have (can I use this word?) "great" jails, and therefore should not be legal. Something that's really interesting to think about is that it actually costs more to execute a person than to imprison them for life. [/quote]
We do not have great jails, and people are still threats to society and still need to be on occasion, executed.

[Crusader_4]

I agree and i am almost completley against the death penalthy now i am going to through a situation into play should Saddam Hussein receive the death penalty? Because no doubt he is guilty....but is he a danger to the public alive as a prisioner? (question i have been wrestling with)

[amarkich]

In response to anyone who believes the death penalty to be immoral (specifically St. Colette and Clair Bear), have you read what Scripture teaches on the issue with the backing of constant Church tradition and the Roman Catechism as well as various other Church documents (not to mention the authority of history)? In case you have not, I recommend the following to your reading:

"Whosoever shall shed man's blood, his blood shall be shed: for man was made to the image of God." c.f., Genesis ix.6

"He that striketh a man with a will to kill him, shall be put to death." c.f., Exodus xxi.12

Numbers XXV almost in its entirety illustrates God's institution of the death penalty and the means by which it should be instituted. The most relevant statement in this chapter not only allows the death penalty but absolutely commands it: "Defile not the land of your habitation, which is stained with the blood of the innocent: neither can it otherwise be expiated, but by his blood that hath shed the blood of another. And thus shall your possession he cleansed, myself abiding with you. For I am the Lord that dwell among the children of Israel." c.f., Numbers xxxv.33, 34

"In the morning I put to death all the wicked of the land: that I might cut off all the workers of iniquity from the city of the Lord." Psalm C

"Let every soul be subject to higher powers: for there is no power but from God: and those that are, are ordained of God. Therefore he that resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God. And they that resist, purchase to themselves damnation. For princes are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? Do that which is good: and thou shalt have praise from the same. For he is God's minister to thee, for good. [b]But if thou do that which is evil, fear: for he beareth not the sword in vain. For he is God's minister: an avenger to execute wrath upon him that doth evil.[/b] Wherefore be subject of necessity, not only for wrath, but also for conscience' sake." c.f., Romans xiii.1-5 (emphasis added)

"He that shall lead into captivity, shall go into captivity: he that shall kill by the sword, must be killed by the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints." Apocalypse xiii.10

All of these verses of the Bible illustrate the right and the [i]duty[/i] of the government to execute the guilty. It should be noted the purpose of the death penalty as found in Sacred Scripture. Is the purpose solely in order to protect the innocent? It surely is not. There is very little mention of protecting the innocent. Rather, Sacred Scripture states that the death penalty is a form of [i]justice[/i] for an action wrongly taken against another, a punishment for guilt. This is illustrated most strongly in Numbers XXXV and implicitly in the other verses. The Roman Catechism reaffirms this concept of the death penalty, that it should be used both as a means of protecting the innocent but also as a means of instituting justice with the authority which God has given the government, c.f., Romans xiii. The Roman Catechism, also called the Catechism of the Council of Trent, gives a reaffirmation of the concept of the death penalty as given to us from God and as practiced by the Jews and recorded by Sacred Scripture. It states:

"Another kind of lawful slaying belongs to the civil authorities, to whom is entrusted power of life and death, by the legal and judicious exercise of which they [i]punish the guilty[/i] [b]and[/b] protect the innocent. (N.B., the punishment of the guilty is listed before the protection of the innocent) The just use of this power, far from involving the crime of murder, is an act of [b]paramount obedience [/b]to this Commandment which prohibits murder. The end of the Commandment­ is the preservation and security of human life. Now the punishments inflicted by the civil authority, which is the legitimate avenger of crime, naturally tend to this end, since they give security to life by repressing outrage and violence. Hence these words of David: In the morning I put to death all the wicked of the land, that I might cut off all the workers of iniquity from the city of the Lord." c.f., Roman Catechism, On the Fifth Commandment (emphasis added)

The Roman Catechism here clearly reaffirms the constant teaching from Scripture as well as the historical use of the death penalty by the Jews and, more importantly, in the context of the tradition of the Church. It continues the belief that the punishment of the guilty is the primary intention and effect of the death penalty and calls the execution of criminals an act in paramount obedience to the Fifth Commandment. Finally, it calls to mind the words of David, thus reaffirming the Old Testament decrees as valid teachings concerning the death penalty. The idea that the death penalty is not necessary is a ridiculous claim to any informed Catholic, or human being for that matter. The death penalty is not only allowed by the Church but is commanded. God did not only give the government the right to kill criminals, but He commanded it, as is seen in Numbers XXXV and in Saint Paul's Epistle to the Romans. It should be noted that the comments of the new Catechism leave the idea of justice completely out of the question when considering the death penalty and that the claims made in the Catechism should be critiqued heavily for several reasons. Firstly, the new Catechism's claim that the death penalty has been solely instituted to protect the innocent finds no origin in Church tradition or even human history. Secondly, the new Catechism provides no reference to previous Church teaching on the matter to support its claims. Thirdly, the new Catechism's claims concerning the death penalty are simply pastoral opinions by the authors and certainly do not enjoy infallibility. Fourthly, it can be derived that the new Catechism's decrees concerning the death penalty can be and must be rejected by faithful Catholics insofar as they are altogether unsupported, they find no precedence in even human history let alone Church tradition, and they are contrary to the teachings of a previous Catechism as well as the constant teaching of Sacred Scripture. God bless.

[St. Catherine]

I agree with the death penalty, it should be rare though.

[ThyWillBeDone]

I know Saint Collete already quoted the Catechism above so I will refrain from quoting the same passage again. But I belief if you read what it says it speaks very clearly about this issue. And I for one am in complete agreement with the Church on this issue. The cases in which the death penality is nessasary are only cases in which there is no other way to protect the public, in our modern society that those cases are extremely rare, and I don't believe America is a position where we need to excute anyone inoder to protect society from that person. The Catechism is very clear on this issue and I do not believe it should be questioned. To quote Saint Augustine "Rome has spoken; the case is closed"
God Bless,
Chris

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 8 2004, 09:10 AM'] Since 1976 about 840 people have been put to death.

...

I think the death penalty problem is miniscule to the abortion problem. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
[/quote]
More people get killed in abortion in a single day than there have been executions in the US since 1976.

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Crusader_4' date='Jul 8 2004, 09:15 PM'] I agree and i am almost completley against the death penalthy now i am going to through a situation into play should Saddam Hussein receive the death penalty? Because no doubt he is guilty....but is he a danger to the public alive as a prisioner? (question i have been wrestling with) [/quote]
This is a question for Iraq.

Personally I'm against the death penalty in almost all cases.