Pastor Goes To Prison For Sermon

[cmotherofpirl]

Thursday, July 8, 2004

FAITH UNDER FIRE
[u]Pastor gets prison for sermon[/u]
Sentenced to month in jail for offending homosexuals
Posted: July 8, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

A Swedish court has sentenced Ake Green, a pastor belonging to the Pentecostal movement, to a month in prison, under a law against incitement, after he was found guilty of having offended homosexuals in a sermon, according to Ecumenical News International.

Green had described homosexuality as "abnormal, a horrible cancerous tumor in the body of society" in a 2003 sermon.

Soren Andersson, the president of the Swedish Federation for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender rights, said on hearing Green's jail sentence that religious freedom could never be used as a reason to offend people.

Edited July 8, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[Thy Geekdom Come]

And thus why I hate liberal politics.

[theculturewarrior]

It has begun years ago. I was just reading in NCRegister that there was a prolife activist who spent 7 years in prison for violating a court order not to speak out against abortion.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

All I can say is wow.


Anyone care to give a guess as to how long it will be before we read about this happening here in the U.S.? And where....

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Jul 8 2004, 05:12 PM'] It has begun years ago. I was just reading in NCRegister that there was a prolife activist who spent 7 years in prison for violating a court order not to speak out against abortion. [/quote]
How about the student this last year who went to the "Free Speech Zone" on the campus of Georgetown University (a Jesuit school) and passed out anti-contraception pamphlet who was removed and repremanded by school authorities?

1. Why does there need to be a special zone for free speech on a Catholic campus (Catholic Church=HUGE human rights supporter), especially one as pro-civil rights as Georgetown?

2. Why is a school, at least nominally Catholic, arresting a kid for passing out pro-Catholic doctrine pamphlets?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Jul 8 2004, 05:13 PM'] All I can say is wow.


Anyone care to give a guess as to how long it will be before we read about this happening here in the U.S.?  And where.... [/quote]
Well, maybe Crusader1234 can verify this for me, but my sources tell me that the Socialist government of Canada has a ban on FoxNews because it is allegedly conservative leaning...

Plus the laws against speaking out against homosexual activity in Canada...

Plus the British government condemnation of John Gibson for calling the BBC "anti-American"...

Plus the "Fairness Act," which is a spit in the face of the first amendment, which is trying to push its way through Congress...

And let's not forget the alleged "freedom of speech" for the porn industry and even for child porn, if it's computer edited...

And let's not forget the "Campaign Finance Reform," which is another spit in the face of the first amendment...

And let's not forget the decisions that Charities run by the Church to serve all people have to provide contraception now under insurance because allegedly they aren't Catholic organizations if they are only run by Catholics, but serve non-Catholics...

And let's not forget Roe v. Wade...

And let's not forget the ridiculous forgetfulness of the American populace of the government election system in the United States (the electoral college) in the 2000 elections...

Censorship is a big problem. Consider nations where the government actually censors the news media, only allows certain views, etc. That is why so many people hate America...they have no free press...they don't realize that they are being told lies and brainwashed every time they turn on their televisions!

[Kilroy the Ninja]

You're right. I was trying to forget. A symptom of the problem...complacency.

Thank you for reminding me. We have much work to do.

[xxjjtuffxx]

interesting, sweden is lame!

[Paladin D]

I don't get it, have these people heard of [b]Free Speech?[/b] Yet again, they aren't the United States. Always a double standard.

[theculturewarrior]

[quote]Anyone care to give a guess as to how long it will be before we read about this happening here in the U.S.? And where....
[/quote]

Actually, as far as abusing hate speech statutes, it's not a done deal yet, here in the states.

But the man who did time for speaking out against abortion was an american citizen and he was jailed in a US Federal prison. Fortunately, the Supreme Court affirmed the right to free speech (even for prolifers) and his conviction was overturned.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

A liberal recipe

Ingredients:

1 world
1 handbasket

Directions:
1. Place world in handbasket
2. Hmm, I think you can figure out where to send it.

[crusader1234]

I personally am kind of on the fence about whether or not he should have gone to jail. Calling the homosexual act evil and all that is great, but he went after homosexuality and depending on how he said it it could be viewed as discrimination (which goes against the CCC according to the homily my Priest did ... too lazy to bother looking it up)... so I'm not about to say 'good for him' quite yet. As for the freedom of speech thing, again depending on how he said it, it might be discrimination so I can understand how he could get arrested.

On the topic of why we officially dont have the channel:

[quote]The cable industry tried last year to bring several American cable channels, Fox News among them, to the digital dial. It failed, officially because the channels – most of them like HBO and movie channels – were already being duplicated by Canadian operations. Canadian policy is to shield Canadian stations that import programming – whether they’re on cable or over the air[/quote]

The CRTC demands that all TV channels have a minimum amount of Canadian content - I think its about 15 percent. Although its widely argued that its a Gov't conspiracy to avoid such extreme right wingers. I personally think thats an infringement on the freedom of speech and a violation of my right to hear both sides of an argument. I really hope that isn't the reason because I like to know both sides of a story.

Peace,

Rich

[CatholicCrusader]

[color=red]Personal Attacks- a post or comment that has nothing to do with the topic, but is specifically meant to upset or criticize another person or group of people. This includes, but is not limited to, callin[u]g people "heretics[/u]" (used in a derogatory manner), "democrooks", etc. [/color]

Edited July 8, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[CatholicCrusader]

I'm sorry if that was seen as derogatory. I don't see how it was such, for if it was there is no way to use "heretic" in a manner that is not derogatory. Therefore, I will restate what I said without using heretic.

I stated that it is absurd to be put in jail for defending the truth; however, a person who is of another religion and teaches it is NOT a pastor but an imposter. Only Priests are true pastors. I stated that although I disagree that someone would be put in jail for that, it is good to have a person who teaches heresy no longer teaching in any way we possibly can. God bless all.

Edited July 8, 2004 by CatholicCrusader

[crusader1234]

To be a heretic you'd have to say yuo are Catholic and then go against Church teachings.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Jul 8 2004, 07:22 PM'] I'm sorry if that was seen as derogatory. I don't see how it was such, for if it was there is no way to use "heretic" in a manner that is not derogatory. Therefore, I will restate what I said without using heretic.

I stated that it is absurd to be put in jail for defending the truth; however, a person who is of another religion and teaches it is NOT a pastor but an imposter. Only Priests are true pastors. I stated that although I disagree that someone would be put in jail for that, it is good to have a person who teaches heresy no longer teaching in any way we possibly can. God bless all. [/quote]
Catholics do not own the word pastor.
a person authorized to conduct religious worship
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

Another name for a clergy person. In both Latin and English the word simply means "shepherd." All Lutheran clergy are called pastors, and many Episcopal and Roman Catholic clergy are comfortable enough with the term to use it to describe them.
www.holycross.net/anonline.htm

Putting anyone in jail for preaching the truth is wrong.

[allis-challmers]

this is just wrong how can they put someone in prison for offending a group of people. The prochoice people offend me all the time and they don't get in any trouble. :angry:

[MC Just]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Jul 8 2004, 04:12 PM'] And thus why I hate liberal politics. [/quote]
[quote name='Raphael' date='Jul 8 2004, 04:12 PM']And thus why I hate liberal politics.[/quote]
Yeah me too, they make me :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Jul 8 2004, 06:12 PM'] And thus why I hate liberal politics. [/quote]
I thought about posting the same thing... decided not too... then read this... and had to pipe up. CMTA (Catholic Minds Think Alike - for the liberals in the audience).


God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Jul 8 2004, 07:28 PM'] To be a heretic you'd have to say yuo are Catholic and then go against Church teachings. [/quote]
All who claim that Christ is the truth long to be Catholic, they just do not know it. Man strives for truth, that is why they study the bible, that is why the church hop, because they find that the people teaching them are not teaching the full truth of Christ.

There is only one Ekklesia (Church)... those who left her do not have churches, even though they wish to call them that.

Anyone who calls themselves Christian and goes against the Church established by Christ is a heretic, but sometimes it is not there fault. There is but one truth, and the only church that knows it fully is the Catholic Church.

[quote]St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: "a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas". "The right Christian faith consists in giving one's voluntary assent to Christ in all that truly belongs to His teaching. There are,therefore,two ways of deviating from Christianity: the one by refusing to believe in Christ Himself, which is the way of infidelity, common to Pagans and Jews; the other by restricting belief to certain points of Christ's doctrine selected and fashioned at pleasure, which is the way of heretics. The subject-matter of both faith and heresy is, therefore, the deposit of the faith, that is, the sum total of truths revealed in Scripture and Tradition as proposed to our belief by the Church. The believer accepts the whole deposit as proposed by the Church; the heretic accepts only such parts of it as commend themselves to his own approval. The heretical tenets may be ignorance of the true creed, erroneous judgment, imperfect apprehension and comprehension of dogmas: in none of these does the will play an appreciable part, wherefore one of the necessary conditions of sinfulness--free choice--is wanting and such heresy is merely objective, or material. On the other hand the will may freely incline the intellect to adhere to tenets declared false by the Divine teaching authority of the Church. The impelling motives are many: intellectual pride or exaggerated reliance on one's own insight; the illusions of religious zeal; the allurements of political or ecclesiastical power; the ties of material interests and personal status; and perhaps others more dishonourable. Heresy thus willed is imputable to the subject and carries with it a varying degree of guilt; it is called formal, because to the material error it adds the informative element of "freely willed".

Pertinacity, that is, obstinate adhesion to a particular tenet is required to make heresy formal. For as long as one remains willing to submit to the Church's decision he remains a Catholic Christian at heart and his wrong beliefs are only transient errors and fleeting opinions. Considering that the human intellect can assent only to truth, real or apparent, studied pertinacity, as distinct from wanton opposition, supposes a firm subjective conviction which may be sufficient to inform the conscience and create "good faith". Such firm convictions result either from circumstances over which the heretic has no control or from intellectual delinquencies in themselves more or less voluntary and imputable. A man born and nurtured in heretical surroundings may live and die without ever having a doubt as to the truth of his creed. On the other hand a born Catholic may allow himself to drift into whirls of anti-Catholic thought from which no doctrinal authority can rescue him, and where his mind becomes incrusted with convictions, or considerations sufficiently powerful to overlay his Catholic conscience. It is not for man, but for Him who searcheth the reins and heart, to sit in judgment on the guilt which attaches to an heretical conscience.

II. DISTINCTIONS

Heresy differs from apostasy. The apostate a fide abandons wholly the faith of Christ either by embracing Judaism, Islamism, Paganism, or simply by falling into naturalism and complete neglect of religion; the heretic always retains faith in Christ. Heresy also differs from schism. Schismatics, says St. Thomas, in the strict sense, are they who of their own will and intention separate themselves from the unity of the Church. The unity of the Church consists in the connection of its members with each other and of all the members with the head. Now this head is Christ whose representative in the Church is the supreme pontiff. And therefore the name of schismatics is given to those who will not submit to the supreme pontiff nor communicate with the members of the Church subject to him. Since the definition of Papal Infallibility, schism usually implies the heresy of denying this dogma. Heresy is opposed to faith; schism to charity; so that, although all heretics are schismatics because loss of faith involves separation from the Church, not all schismatics are necessarily heretics, since a man may, from anger, pride, ambition, or the like, sever himself from the communion of the Church and yet believe all the Church proposes for our belief (II-II, Q. xxix, a. 1). Such a one, however, would be more properly called rebellious than heretical.

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm[/url][/quote]


These statements are not derogetory. These statements are fact. If anyone wish to dialog about the facts that I have stated above, please start a thread and PM me the link. I will be happy to write my reasons out for the above simple statments.



God Bless,
ironmonk