homeschoolmom Posted July 15, 2004 Posted July 15, 2004 My husband and I read The Purpose Driven Life last fall at our Baptist church... shortly after completing it, we starting looking into Catholicism... Turns out, our new parish read the book during Lent. It's not a book of theology... it's more... a... well... like a kick in the pants... I agree that the "brand name" of it is a turn off... but it was still a good read.
conservativecatholic Posted July 15, 2004 Posted July 15, 2004 [quote][u]I can't really find anything 'heretical' in it[/u]. It's pretty basic Christianity. [u]They just don't go into the sacraments and stuff[/u]. It's a 40 day book about finding the purpose of your life according to God's plan. All of the church's in our area are doing it together. There are some quotes of Catholic saints in it, and also quotes of protestants. But altogether it's a pretty good book. The only problem I see is it's black or white, heaven or hell, and no discussion of purgatory. [/quote] The book is heretical because it excludes [b]crucial [/b]teachings of Christ's Church such as the Sacraments and Purgatory. When a priest excludes any one word from the Mass, no matter how small, it is considered abuse by the Vatican! This book my friend, is heresy. May God Bless!
cmotherofpirl Posted July 15, 2004 Posted July 15, 2004 Nope. Leaving info out of a general book on basic christianity is not heresy. To be a heretic you first must know the Truth, then deny it. Simply not covering a topic is not a crime. This is not a case of a catechism or a Mass where an omission might be critical, but simply light spiritual reading.
conservativecatholic Posted July 15, 2004 Posted July 15, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 15 2004, 01:08 AM'] Nope. Leaving info out of a general book on basic christianity is not heresy. To be a heretic you first must know the Truth, then deny it. Simply not covering a topic is not a crime. This is not a case of a catechism or a Mass where an omission might be critical, but simply light spiritual reading. [/quote] I'm right. Rick Warren, the author of this book, clearly is aware of some Truth and denies it which makes him some what heretical. The book he writes includes his heretical writings and quotes from other Truth-knowing/denying Protestants. The fact is they all know the Truth yet deny it. That is the definition of heresy. If a heretic writes a book on Christian doctrine, the book is heretical.
RemnantRules Posted July 15, 2004 Posted July 15, 2004 what i believe is that there are SOOO MANY OTHER GREAT books that they could have chosen, i don't think they should have chosen that book, if it's trying to base it's self on not ALL fact, truth, and theology of the one true church then what leg does it have to stand on???
cmotherofpirl Posted July 15, 2004 Posted July 15, 2004 (edited) [quote name='conservativecatholic' date='Jul 15 2004, 03:24 AM'] I'm right. Rick Warren, the author of this book, clearly is aware of some Truth and denies it which makes him some what heretical. The book he writes includes his heretical writings and quotes from other Truth-knowing/denying Protestants. The fact is they all know the Truth yet deny it. That is the definition of heresy. If a heretic writes a book on Christian doctrine, the book is heretical. [/quote] A heretic is someone who knows the truth and denies it. How would you know how much he knows? Its still a stupid book for catholics to read in Lent. Edited July 15, 2004 by cmotherofpirl
p0lar_bear Posted July 15, 2004 Posted July 15, 2004 I haven't read the book, so this is a general comment... It is possible for a book by a non-Catholic to be useful and upbuilding spiritual reading. I've heard "Mere Christianity" recommended by dozens of Catholics, yet it was written by a non-Catholic. The book will obviously be lacking in various elements (ecclesiology, sacraments, etc). However, it may still be a good book, for what it is. That said, I think there are a great number of better choices for a lenten reading series. There is such a wealth of spiritual literature from the saints that it seems unlikely that there were no Catholic books that could serve the needs of the parish.
Guest JeffCR07 Posted July 15, 2004 Posted July 15, 2004 allow me to illustrate the discussion with an example: A Protestant says "God is love." He is correct. A heretic, who absolutely understands the doctrine of Immaculate Conception with a fully formed conscience, but still denies, says "God is love." He is correct. Now, with regards the "sin of omission," here is where I see people straying from being catholic into being merely anti-protestant. The argument that we should not read a book, merely because it was written by a Protestant and so does not contain some articles of our faith is flawed on multiple accounts. 1.) No book, to the best of my knowledge (aside from the catechism) contains every article of catholic dogma. It is not a "sin of omission" if a book doesn't have everything, it just isn't a thorough book. 2.) One [i]can[/i] sin by omission when writing a book if, for example, a protestant who fully understands the Church's teachings on an issue of dogma and has a fully formed conscience, intentionally refuses to address a certain issue. 3.) One does not sin if they are only indirectly connected to the sin of another. (Example: If Coke utilizes child labor for the production of 2% of all Coke's worldwide, I do not sin if I am thirsty and buy a coke, because I am too far removed from the sin.) Thus, you do not sin by the omission of others, only by your own omissions. Conclusion: It is fine to read a book written by a Protestant, insofar as it does not contain blatant heresy, but rather merely does not address particular articles of catholic dogma. [i]Mere Christianity[/i] is a wonderful example. I would also like to point out that, if a person has a fully formed conscience and is deeply rooted in an orthodox faith, it is permissible to even read heretical things under certain conditions (it is ok for a fully formed, orthodox catholic to read the "Gnostic Gospels" in order to refute such a heresy). - Your Brother In Christ, Jeff
conservativecatholic Posted July 15, 2004 Posted July 15, 2004 (edited) [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 15 2004, 07:26 AM'] A heretic is someone who knows the truth and denies it. How would you know how much he knows? Its still a stupid book for catholics to read in Lent. [/quote] I know how much he knows, because he explains his personal beliefs in his books. He knows of the Roman Catholic Church's belief in Purgatory, yet he denies that it exists. He knows of the Roman Catholic Church's belief in the Immaculate Conception, yet he denies that it ever happened. He knows of the Roman Catholic Church's belief in salvation by faith+works, yet he denies that it is true. Cmom, if heresy consists of someone who knows the Truth but denies it, then this is a case of heresy. Although, we do agree that the book indeed is stupid to read during Lent, for there are many other books to disect during that liturgical season. Edited July 15, 2004 by conservativecatholic
cmotherofpirl Posted July 15, 2004 Posted July 15, 2004 Ok. We agree the book should not be used for anything Catholic. But unless he is a former Catholic, he is not a heretic, but merely a protester.
conservativecatholic Posted July 15, 2004 Posted July 15, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 15 2004, 10:50 AM'] Ok. We agree the book should not be used for anything Catholic. But unless he is a former Catholic, he is not a heretic, but merely a protester. [/quote] Cmom, you are right. You have to be a former Roman Catholic in order to be a heretic. If his European ancestors were Catholic, wouldn't that make him a heretic within his family timeline? May God Bless!
Guest JeffCR07 Posted July 15, 2004 Posted July 15, 2004 No, heresy is not something that is passed down, it is applicable only to individuals. If a child is brought up in a protestant community and never really hears or understands the truth of catholicism, he is not a heretic, just someone who does not have at his disposal the Fullness of the Truth (or the Sacraments) to help him in his journey to become united to Christ. If someone is brought up protestant, has a fully formed conscience, understands the teachings of the catholic Church, and still denies, then he is [i]still[/i] not a heretic, though he is (I believe) in a state of mortal sin.
ladybug Posted July 15, 2004 Author Posted July 15, 2004 [quote name='RemnantRules' date='Jul 15 2004, 04:19 AM'] what i believe is that there are SOOO MANY OTHER GREAT books that they could have chosen, i don't think they should have chosen that book, if it's trying to base it's self on not ALL fact, truth, and theology of the one true church then what leg does it have to stand on??? [/quote] Could you and everybody else list your favorite Catholic books so we can share some good reading? Books for adults and children both if you can. I agree, that although this book is not so bad, we have so many catholic books we can read and nourish our faith with.
ladybug Posted July 15, 2004 Author Posted July 15, 2004 Let's all take a break from the debate and sing Kumbayah!!!!
conservativecatholic Posted July 15, 2004 Posted July 15, 2004 [quote name='ladybug' date='Jul 15 2004, 04:33 PM'] Let's all take a break from the debate and sing Kumbayah!!!! [/quote] Hahaha. I agree. Come on everybody... Kumbayah my Lord, Kumbaya etc. lol. Peace
conservativecatholic Posted July 15, 2004 Posted July 15, 2004 (edited) [quote name='ladybug' date='Jul 15 2004, 04:31 PM'] Could you and everybody else list your favorite Catholic books so we can share some good reading? Books for adults and children both if you can. I agree, that although this book is not so bad, we have so many catholic books we can read and nourish our faith with. [/quote] Rome Sweet Rome is a great book for people who have left the Church! I'm sure you have heard of Scott Hahn. He's a great author and former Protestant. Other great books on the Church are [i]Catholicism for Dummies[/i]and [i]The Next Pope[/i]. Great magazines and newspapers include, [i]The National Catholic Register [/i]and [i]Latin Mass Magazine[/i]. They are absolutely fabulous. The next book I plan to read is by Michael Rose. It's called Ug[i]ly As Sin: Why They Changed Our Churches from Sacred Places to Meeting Spaces and How We Can Change Them Back Again[/i]. May God Bless! Edited July 15, 2004 by conservativecatholic
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