Jägerstätter, Schneider, Vaccines, and Us

[KnightofChrist]

2 minutes ago, hakutaku said:

Certainly, so long as it is accompanied by the necessary outreach programs to make sure it is accessible for all.  Like this:

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2021/07/22/biden-harris-admin-provides-100-million-to-rural-health-clinics-for-covid-19-vaccination.html

 

Why would African Americans trust the US government after the Tuskegee Study?

[hakutaku]

1 minute ago, KnightofChrist said:

Why would African Americans trust the US government after the Tuskegee Study?

Ask them.  The surveys found white Americans were more distrustful of the government.

We can just as easily ask "why are white Americans so distrustful of the government despite being the overwhelming beneficiaries of its biases in the past."

But I think we all know the answer.

[KnightofChrist]

Just now, hakutaku said:

Ask them.  The surveys found white Americans were more distrustful of the government.

We can just as easily ask "why are white Americans so distrustful of the government despite being the overwhelming beneficiaries of its biases in the past."

But I think we all know the answer.

Let's not just overlook the fact that even if segregating the unvaccinated means segregating minorities you'd support it. 

Where on the bus should the unvaccinated people sit? What door should the walk through to by groceries? Presuming you'd allow them any of those places.

[hakutaku]

3 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

Let's not just overlook the fact that even if segregating the unvaccinated means segregating minorities you'd support it. 

Where did these words in my mouth come from?  Who could have put them there?

Edited August 11, 2021 by hakutaku

[KnightofChrist]

1 minute ago, hakutaku said:

Where did these words in my mouth come from?

When you stated that you would "certainly" support segregating unvaccinated persons even when the data shown showed the number is disproportionately African American.

[hakutaku]

1 minute ago, KnightofChrist said:

When you stated that you would "certainly" support segregating unvaccinated persons even when the data shown showed the number is disproportionately African American.

Disproportionate by a slim margin that is shrinking.  The numbers are never going to be dead even across all categories of people, but they are even enough that trying to pass it of as a deliberate segregation of minorities is grasping at straws.

9 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

disproportionately African American.

Just for a sense of scale:

The gap between whites and minorities when it comes to the question "do you have a drivers license" can exceed 30%.  The gap on "have you gotten a vaccine" is less than 15% in a majority of states.

How are conservatives going to argue that vaccine passports are discriminatory while their photo ID voting laws are not?

 

[KnightofChrist]

15 minutes ago, hakutaku said:

Disproportionate by a slim margin that is shrinking.  The numbers are never going to be dead even across all categories of people, but they are even enough that trying to pass it of as a deliberate segregation of minorities is grasping at straws.

49% of the total white population in the US is vaccinated. Compared to 38% of the total African American population. An -11% point difference, not what I would call slim. 

Your position of segregation is unintentionally bigoted and racist. 

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/percent-of-total-population-that-has-received-a-covid-19-vaccine-by-race-ethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel={"colId":"Location","sort":"asc"}

[hakutaku]

2 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

An -11% point difference, not what I would call slim. 

Something is weird in the kff dataset.

If you look at their Fig 1 and Figure 2. in your original link, they have the % of covid doses received by race, vs the race's % of the total population.  As I indicated, those numbers were within 2% of each other on average (e.g. in Alabama, black people make up 27% of the population and received 25% of the vaccines).

It is not clear to me how a 2% gap in vaccines received translates into an 11% gap in vaccinated people, unless white people are more likely to stop at just one dose.

[hakutaku]

40 minutes ago, hakutaku said:

It is not clear to me how a 2% gap in vaccines received translates into an 11% gap in vaccinated people, unless white people are more likely to stop at just one dose.

I still haven't figured out how their dataset generated Fig1 and Fig2, but I have used it to extrapolate current trends forward.   Assuming the current vaccination rates don't change, blacks and whites will reach vaccination parity around November.

[Mercedes]

2 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

49% of the total white population in the US is vaccinated. Compared to 38% of the total African American population. An -11% point difference, not what I would call slim. 

Your position of segregation is unintentionally bigoted and racist. 

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/percent-of-total-population-that-has-received-a-covid-19-vaccine-by-race-ethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel={"colId":"Location","sort":"asc"}

What is the stated reason that African Americans are less vaccinated than white people?  Is it because vaccines aren't being provided to African Americans who desire vaccination?

Edited August 11, 2021 by Mercedes

[Lea]

As a person living in Germany and constantly witnessing outright Antisemitism and nationalism amongst those calling Covid-19 a lie forcing us into a dictatorship and what not, I'm disgusted about this article. 
It makes me especially sad when seeing catholic parishioners sharing into those lies. Some of them even got aggressive towards our pastors when they did what the bishop (not the government itself!) told them to do and obligated masks during mass. 

[debc]

Black Americans have largely stepped up in my area but with a history of being used as guinea pigs some are hesitant. I am proud that many leaders of different backgrounds have helped that cause and got many vaccinated in my state.

I have seen in the medical field many come down with this virus and get very sick and still have months later, horrible side effects (neurological/loss of taste/smell and other things) I have seen coworkers get Covid pos after vaccine but it was limited to a "flu like" symptom, not the more horrific ones that others have had. The fact some will still get it is not a reason not too, because it lessens the virus's symptoms. The younger people getting it now is sad also because they can't get the vaccine. I've seen moms lose their life afraid of the vaccine and children are left alone. I see children on ventilators not able to breath properly and want to cry. It's easy to sit in an arm chair and say things but there is so much misinformation out there it's scary.

I don't demonize those who wont help control the virus, but obey the rules. Don't go into a store or office without a mask if stated you need it. I find it very disturbing when in a medical office, some will try to air political views while they are ushered to the door. (or they pull it down in the room) I had a doctor say he'd dismiss someone if they continued that stupid behavior. Respect is 2 way.

[Peace]

15 hours ago, hakutaku said:

Ask them.

Yeah black people don't trust the US government last time I asked the homies.

[Ice_nine]

 

[fides' Jack]

On 8/10/2021 at 4:16 PM, hakutaku said:

You failed to do that because the section I quoted explicitly says I was right.  It says you are not causing an abortion by getting a vaccine.

And I didn't outright disagree with you.  I was showing that it didn't matter whether it was causal or not for it to be evil.

On 8/10/2021 at 4:33 PM, hakutaku said:

I see anti-covid-vaxxers as about as intelligent as smokers.

Oh, there you go!  I've never been a smoker, but have always wanted to try pipes, and probably wouldn't mind an occasional cigar.

On 8/11/2021 at 3:33 AM, debc said:

I don't demonize those who wont help control the virus, but obey the rules. Don't go into a store or office without a mask if stated you need it. I find it very disturbing when in a medical office, some will try to air political views while they are ushered to the door. (or they pull it down in the room) I had a doctor say he'd dismiss someone if they continued that stupid behavior. Respect is 2 way.

I don't obey the rules if they're unconstitutional in my country, such as mask mandates.

That being said it IS constitutional for a private business owner to kick me out if he wants to, for really any reason, so I won't even argue, if I'm asked to leave I will.

I agree, people need to be respectful on both sides, especially with in-person confrontations.

(This is for the US, of course - not all reading this live here)

[fides' Jack]

My point in the last post being that I've seen far, FAR more disrespect against the anti-covid-shot people than the other way around, especially in the Catholic world.

[Ice_nine]

It's really rich how an atheist can use the term "right side of history." So the universe definitely has no God, but it has a telos?

lololololol

[hakutaku]

On 8/12/2021 at 10:26 PM, fides' Jack said:

My point in the last post being that I've seen far, FAR more disrespect against the anti-covid-shot people than the other way around, especially in the Catholic world.

I understand that you want to be treated with more political correctness, but cafeteria vaxxers are literally causing people to die of COVID.

Just like they did back in 1931 when they opposed smallpox vaccines.

2 hours ago, Ice_nine said:

It's really rich how an atheist can use the term "right side of history." So the universe definitely has no God, but it has a telos?

Hmm?  Who was talking about the universe?  Last I checked, human history isn't the same thing.

Edited August 15, 2021 by hakutaku

[Ice_nine]

16 hours ago, hakutaku said:

Hmm?  Who was talking about the universe?  Last I checked, human history isn't the same thing.

Ok, so there is no God, but human history has a telos, and you are qualified from where you stand to make judgements on it?

Have fun with that mate.

[hakutaku]

17 minutes ago, Ice_nine said:

Ok, so there is no God, but human history has a telos, and you are qualified from where you stand to make judgements on it?

Its not some monumental undertaking, right?

We record history for a reason, right?  That reason isn't a secret, right?  Don't we record history so we can learn from it?

Why do we learn anything?  Is it to make our lives worse?  Of course not!  We learn so that we can make our lives better!

So tada! The purpose of our recording of history is to learn how to make our lives better!

So all that "on the wrong side of history" does is designate something that failed to make our lives better based on the historical record we have created to identify precisely that!

Edited August 15, 2021 by hakutaku