Mortal Sins

[dairygirl4u2c]

I think the Catholic Church should make distinctional words for "mortal sin". Everytime someone asks "is this a mortal sin?", everyone will jump at them, "not if you're not aware!". But the intent of the person asking could very well have been "is this what the Catholic Church teaches is a mortal sin when one has knowledge about it?". It'd avoid confusion and be more efficient.

[God Conquers]

I think that's kind of a given due to their semi-subjective nature.

[p0lar_bear]

I don't know about other people, but I make the distinction every time for the benefit of those who don't know or recognize it. I generally prefer to speak of "grave matter" rather than mortal sin so that I'm not dismissed off-hand as judging the state of someone's soul.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

Actually, there is a distinction. Whether or not you're aware of the sin, it is still of GRAVE MATTER. If you're aware that it is of grave matter and that you do it with full will (you're concious and it's not from a mental condition such as addiction), then it's a sin.

[Chris Zewe]

Someone told me that since I had eaten Eucharist without believing in God I was going to Hell because it was a mortal sin...

[littleflower+JMJ]

[quote]Someone told me that since I had eaten Eucharist without believing in God I was going to Hell because it was a mortal sin... [/quote]


are you familiar with the Catholic faith?

[Dave]

Well Chris, I can't possibly know whether you're going to hell or heaven, but receiving the Eucharist without believing in God is definitely a mortal sin. Why would you want to partake of the Eucharist like that and desecrate what we as Catholics hold sacred?!

[Chris Zewe]

1) My parents are intolerant [color=red][edited by littleflower: Profanity][/color] . Thus, they still think I'm Catholic.
2) I have to go to church like 2-3 times a year.
3) At said church, refusing to go and take the bread would probably result in an exorcism.

[MichaelFilo]

Without telling people things about you, they can't honestly be intolerant. As your religious views change on a 2 week basis, I think it'd be safe to say you don't tell them anything, and they are under the assumption you are still following the faith they don't practice most of the time anyways.

God Bless,

Michael

[Chris Zewe]

No, you see, I've brought up the subject of other religions many times. My parents feel more or less the same way you do about Wicca.

[mmmerf]

[quote name='Chris Zewe' date='Jul 23 2004, 01:59 PM'] 1) My parents are intolerant [color=red][edited by littleflower: Profanity][/color] . Thus, they still think I'm Catholic.
2) I have to go to church like 2-3 times a year.
3) At said church, refusing to go and take the bread would probably result in an exorcism. [/quote]
Well, I'd argue that taking the Eucharist when you don't believe in it is certainly grave matter, but if you don't believe in God, heaven or hell, then the only reason you'd have for abstaining is out of respect for another's faith.

And, if you'll permit me to put you on the spot for a second, as for having an exorcism done if you didn't go, well, why should that matter to you? If it's all meaningless, let them shake their beads and sprinkle their water and read their prayers... unless you find that idea disquieting. In which case I'd ask myself why.

And please, refer to it as the Eucharist. It's not bread.

[Apotheoun]

As every Catholic knows, a mortal sin requires grave matter, full knowledge of the sinful character of the action in question, and deliberate consent in committing the action. The fact that a person may lack full knowledge and deliberate consent, does not make the gravely sinful character of the action performed, neutral or benign. Instead, the action remains objectively sinful, but because of the lack of knowledge and consent on the part of the acting agent, the action performed is not imputable to him, so long as his ignorance is not intentional.

Edited July 24, 2004 by Apotheoun

[Theoketos]

[quote name='Chris Zewe' date='Jul 23 2004, 01:59 PM'] 1) My parents are intolerant [color=red][edited by littleflower: Profanity][/color] . Thus, they still think I'm Catholic.
2) I have to go to church like 2-3 times a year.
3) At said church, refusing to go and take the bread would probably result in an exorcism. [/quote]
Refering to number three...

...I think there is a great opportunity to bring goodness between you and your parents. That is to say if you express to them that you feel that you are not properly disposed to recieve the Body of Christ, and thus to recieve would not only be an insult to them, but cause damage to you, I think that they might be understanding. Build upon that understanding, you might one day find peace.

And I do think that the whole wicca thing is about bringing goodness so that goodness will be brough to you (some say three fold)

[Aloysius]

oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

Al, I've noticed you've gone back to your classic style of avatar.

[jasJis]

Chris Zewe,

I'd like to clarify something for you. If you are recieving the Eucharist, the Body of Christ in the form of Bread, it is a Grave Matter, a serious thing. For it to be a mortal sin, you must be aware and understand that it's a Grave Matter and with complete Freedom of your will, be choosing to do so. Within understanding that it's a Grave Matter, you also understand that you must be receiveing "worthily" (which means you have sincerely asked God for forgiveness of your sins and be open to His love and grace that is offered through the Eucharist). If you know you aren't receiving Him "worthily", and you are still doing so with Freedom of your will, then it is a Mortal sin.
Given your situation, acting in obedience to your parents means that you aren't necessarily acting with complete Freedom of your will. It gets complicated because you have to consider if you have tried to respectfully talk to your parents about it (as opposed to just arguing). Your parents share responsibililty for the Mortal Sin, but again, what part is your responsibility to discuss this respectfully and reasonblly with your parents without it being just a matter of defiance and rebellion against their authority. Did you try just one time and give up? You should never give up, but address again, and again, and work at being respectful, mature, etc.
When ever we work to turn away from something that is "sinful" or bad, God works to give us graces to help us grow as good persons. He doesn't ever walk over our free will, so He is patient and lets us have time to grow. It doesn't have to take one conversation, or two. This is something that can take many months as He willingly and patiently helps you and your parents grow closer. That reality exists now, and will always exist. It is yours and your parent's responsiblity to not give up and be willing to be patient with each other and exercise every effort to work it out.

[remnant]

Praised be Jesus Christ!

On the topic of Grave Matter. I have been thinking a while how to do define this. What is a Grave Matter? The Baltimore Catechism No. 3 does a great job. A grave matter is a sin is something that is always evil and something that is strickly prohibited.

We should get our definition of what is evil through scripture, church teaching and the church Fathers. The strickly prohibited part is what is helpful. If the Church or good authority figures strickly prohibite something it becomes a grave matter.

in Him, with Him, through Him,

remnant