Are You Happy With Pres Bush?

[the protector]

So Bush is the better candidate because he created MORE violence in the world?

Check out [url="http://hem.passagen.se/replikant/nuclear_nightmare.htm"]this article.[/url] Most specifically the part labeled, "Dubya's Excellent Nuclear Adventure" and on. This administration had devised a nuclear strategy in response to the Iraqi military's possible use of chemical or biological weapons during US occupation. Luckily, as we have learned, there are no stockpiles. He wasn't given a reason to retaliate with nukes. That would have been quite ironic (and horrifying) in an operation titled "Iraqi Freedom".

Edited July 26, 2004 by the protector

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='the protector' date='Jul 26 2004, 03:09 AM'] So Bush is the better candidate because he created MORE violence in the world? [/quote]
How is killing babies [i]not[/i] violent? If anything, supporting the killing of innocent children by the millions (as Kerry does) is by far more violent than any war this world has every seen. I'm sorry, but the numbers and the facts just aren't on your side.

God bless,

Jennifer

[the protector]

Were there no abortions under the Bush administration? When Bush was inaugurated, did all abortions just cease? More importantly, will abortion be outlawed in a second Bush term? His primary goal as president isn't to end abortion. No matter what bones he may throw to his pro-life voters, it's far from being his top concern.

millions killed in abortion + thousands killed in war > millions killed in abortion

I believe that adds up to more death.

Edited July 26, 2004 by the protector

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='the protector' date='Jul 26 2004, 03:43 AM'] Were there no abortions under the Bush administration?
millions killed in abortion + thousands killed in war > millions killed in abortion [/quote]
Unfortunately, yes. But, if you clicked on the links I posted, you'd see that Bush has done a lot to decrease abortion in this country. Believe me, pro-abortion groups don't hate him for nothing.

[quote]More importantly, will abortion be outlawed in a second Bush term?[/quote]

It could be. Soon, there will be openings for Supreme Court judges. Overturning Roe v. Wade is much more possible with Bush in office, as Kerry has said that he will not appoint judges who plan on overturning Roe v. Wade.

[quote]His primary goal as president isn't to end abortion.[/quote]

Maybe not, but that's not the point. The point is that with him in office, there's a better chance in making abortion illegal again.

[quote] No matter what bones he may throw to his pro-life voters, it's far from being his top concern.
[/quote]

You might say that Bush is just "throwing bones to voters," but you have yet to address the evidence I posted. It's very clear that pro-abortion groups think Bush is actually [b]doing[/b] more than throwing bones regarding pro-life issues.

Not only that, but if you insist that Bush is just "throwing bones," then you'd also have to admit that Kerry could be throwing bones regarding his opposition to the Iraqi War. If anything, this is more probable given his wishy-washy, flip-floppy stance on this.

[quote]millions killed in abortion + thousands killed in war > millions killed in abortion
[/quote]

I will not be perfectly satisfied until abortion is illegal again. Bush has done things for the pro-life movement, and I'd even say he has probably decreased the number of abortions in withholding funding from "family planning" groups.

I don't understand your logic. Kerry has said that he will do nothing to make abortion illegal again. In fact, he's said that he wants to keep abortion legal. Under Kerry, the pro-life goal is impossible. Under Bush, it's not. You cannot lose sight of the goal. I'd respect your position more if you didn't want to vote for Bush or Kerry. But, how could you vote for someone who [b]sanctions[/b] the murder of millions of innocent children? At least Bush is opposed to abortion and isn't against laws limiting or prohibiting it. What nationality are you? Would you vote for someone who thought killing people of your nationality should stay legal, and would you vote for them if they've explicitly said that they won't appoint judges who would make killing you illegal?

God bless,

Jennifer

[curtins]

-Some people make the claim that abortion is equivalent to the war in Iraq.

44,670,812 U.S. unborn babies dead since 1973 due to abortion.

21 years

[url="http://www.mccl.org/abortion_statistics.htm"]http://www.mccl.org/abortion_statistics.htm[/url]

American Casualty due to war 1775 to Present 1,090,200

229 years

[url="http://www.libraryspot.com/lists/listwars.htm"]http://www.libraryspot.com/lists/listwars.htm[/url]

Now you do the math.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='the protector' date='Jul 26 2004, 02:09 AM'] So Bush is the better candidate because he created MORE violence in the world?
[/quote]
Does anyone else find this statement funny considering the person who said it has a Pulp Fiction avatar? :rotfl: (No offense Protector, it just cracked me up!)

[Iacobus]

[quote name='curtins' date='Jul 26 2004, 08:46 AM'] -Some people make the claim that abortion is equivalent to the war in Iraq.

44,670,812 U.S. unborn babies dead since 1973 due to abortion.

21 years

[url="http://www.mccl.org/abortion_statistics.htm"]http://www.mccl.org/abortion_statistics.htm[/url]

American Casualty due to war 1775 to Present 1,090,200

229 years

[url="http://www.libraryspot.com/lists/listwars.htm"]http://www.libraryspot.com/lists/listwars.htm[/url]

Now you do the math. [/quote]
Again I say, 1. numbers are pointless. Death is death. It doesn't matter who dies or how many SOMEONE DIES.

and 2. if you insist numbers matter, the population of the world is 6.3 BILLION. Death toll if we start using nukes (nuclear winter, push off of axis, massive world ending strikes *heck India can end the world twice already*) would be a mere 141 times more than the all abortions from [i]Roe v. Wade[/i] till present.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Jul 26 2004, 12:54 PM'] Again I say, 1. numbers are pointless. Death is death. It doesn't matter who dies or how many SOMEONE DIES. [/quote]
I'm afraid the Church disagrees with you.

[MagiDragon]

I'll say it again: If you want peace, prepare for war.

Bush has done that. Fight the small battles now, so that we don't have a full scale war on our hands later.

[flip]

the Pope himself said this was an unjust war...


Father JP 2 disagrees with his actions...



Also, what has Bush done for abortion? as far as i know, it is still legal. In 4 years, the Bush adminstration has not rid of us of this evil. are we to put faith in him that he will end it?

i know with kerry, abortion will continue and rise. but with Bush, i have no doubt that abortion will continue. when will it END???

[Aloysius]

bush has stopped US funding of UN population control programs (or you know, baby killing programs), he pushed for and succeeded in illegalizing partial birth abortion, he cut federal funding of stem cell research, he pushed for the Lacy Peterson Law.

Kerry's voting record is in favor of federal funding for stem cell research, federal funding for abortion rights, he voted against the Lacy Peterson law because he knew his friends at Planned Parenthood and NARAL would get mad at him for voting for a law that actually recognizes the fetus as a person.

Bush is doing things for the pro-life cause. Now, i bet if we had Jeb Bush or Rick Santorem or Alan Keyes in there, there'd be alot more happening, but right now Bush is the best hope for ending abortion. Don't forget the president appoints justices to the supreme court, which may be the best hope to illegalize the American holocaust.

According to the Catholic Church, numbers DO count when judging the actions of a government.

And let's not forget that Cardinal Ratzinger has said Catholics may have a variety of opinions when it comes to issues like the Iraq war and the death penalty, but abortion is ALWAYS AND EVERYWHERE evil and no Catholic may have a differing opinion when it comes to the fact that it must be illegalized and stopped.

JPII disagreed with his decision and timing to go to war. JPII supports his current efforts in Iraq with the handover of power and all the good we're doing over there.

Pax

[dUSt]

[i]"For years, a terrible form of violence has been directed against children who are inches from birth, while the law looked the other way. Today, at last, the American people and our government have confronted the violence and come to the defense of the innocent child. … America stands for liberty, for the pursuit of happiness and for the unalienable right of life. And the most basic duty of government is to defend the life of the innocent. Every person, however frail or vulnerable, has a place and a purpose in this world. Every person has a special dignity. This right to life cannot be granted or denied by government, because it does not come from government, it comes from the Creator of life. … " [b]- George W Bush[/b][/i]

While Bush has been president the pro-life campaign has had two major wins: The Partial Birth Abortion Ban and the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.

While Senator Kerry has skipped 78 percent of his senate votes this year, he made a point of coming back to vote against the Unborn Victims Of Violence Act.

Kerry has voted at least three times against requiring parental consent or notification for a minor's abortion.

Kerry says reversing Mexico City Policy would be his first executive order. LARRY KING: "What would be the first executive order?" KERRY: "Reverse the Mexico City policy on the gag rule so that we take a responsible position globally on family planning." (CNN/Los Angeles Times, Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Los Angeles, CA, 2/26/04)

(The “Mexico City Policy” forbids US tax dollars from being given to organizations in foreign countries that perform abortions or that lobby for legalizing abortion. It was created by President Reagan, abolished by President Clinton, and re-established by President Bush.)

[Good Friday]

May I ask why Iacobus "does not rep the Church"? It is because he doesn't support an evangelical Methodist president? If so, I think we're really beginning to stretch what "repping the Church" really means to the point of absurdity.

[b]Edit:[/b] And if in fact he "does not rep the Church" because he doesn't support President Bush, then you better make me "Phishy" too, because I don't support Bush in any way, shape or form -- in fact, I think he is one of the most evil, deceptive men we've seen since Adolph Hitler. And I'm not going to retract that because Her Excellency Judie Brown disagrees with me.

Edited July 26, 2004 by Good Friday

[Kilroy the Ninja]

Iacobus has that title because of multiple posts of his in which his faithfulness to the current magisterium might be called into question. It has nothing to do with his support or non-support of President Bush. May I suggest that in the future you ask such questions via pm to dUSt, the person who hands out said titles? It's far more appropriate.

Edited July 26, 2004 by Kilroy the Ninja

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

It's hard to get pro-life judges in when the democrats won't even let a vote come up to confirm these judges. Roe v. Wade sure as heck won't get overturned with the type of pro-abortion justices Kerry wants to install.

Yeah, Bush hasn't made abortion outright illegal in this country, but look at how much opposition he faces. Catholics supporting abortion and abortion-supporting candidates sure aren't making the pro-life cause any easier.

God bless you all,
Jay

[Good Friday]

I'd like to know which one of you removed my last post and for what reason, and how far this censorship is going to go and how many people are going to have to leave before it stops.

[dUSt]

[quote]May I ask why Iacobus "does not rep the Church"?  It is because he doesn't support an evangelical Methodist president? [/quote]
Of course not.

This statement made by Iacobus contradicts Church teaching, as the Church clearly teaches that abortion is more serious than other forms of killing:

[i]Again I say, 1. numbers are pointless. Death is death. It doesn't matter who dies or how many SOMEONE DIES.[/i]

[quote][b]Edit:[/b] And if in fact he "does not rep the Church" because he doesn't support President Bush, then you better make me "Phishy" too, because I don't support Bush in any way, shape or form -- in fact, I think he is one of the most evil, deceptive men we've seen since Adolph Hitler.  And I'm not going to retract that because Her Excellency Judie Brown disagrees with me.[/quote]
I don't change titles based on politics, but rather, orthodoxy to the Church. It would be unfair to only give the "Phishy" title to the "ultra-trads" when they seem to deny the teaching authority of our Holy Father, but ignore it when the "liberals" do the same thing. Orthodoxy is a very narrow road.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Good Friday' date='Jul 26 2004, 03:04 PM'] I'd like to know which one of you removed my last post and for what reason, and how far this censorship is going to go and how many people are going to have to leave before it stops. [/quote]
Mods: Please either document posts or let the member know in private why certain actions were made. Thanks.

Good Friday: Sometimes it's good to wait a little while in case the mod was in the process of letting you know.

Just guessing though. Thanks all.

[Good Friday]

Cardinal Bernardin taught the same thing that Iacobus said. Are you, a layman, saying that Cardinal Bernardin, a Bishop elevated to the status of a Cardinal by the Holy Father, was heterodox?

[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='dUSt' date='Jul 26 2004, 03:08 PM'] Good Friday: Sometimes it's good to wait a little while in case the mod was in the process of letting you know.
[/quote]
Sorry about that... it was me and I had my son in my lap and I accidently chose the delete button rather than the edit button. And I had to go put him down for his nap, so sorry for the delay.

But just so you know, I was going to edit your post as it was a personal attack on dUSt. Because, yes, he is the bishop of phatmass. And the king of phatmass. And the owner of phatmass. And he can give anyone he wants whatever title he wishes.

Sorry you can't abide that.