Jake Huether Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 [url="http://store.yahoo.com/ppfastore/ihadabt.html"]http://store.yahoo.com/ppfastore/ihadabt.html[/url] For the sake of His Sorriful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!
mikeymc Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 We definitely need to pray for Women and Unwed mothers.. As well as ACT to change the culture... This smells of elderberries.. :saber:
universal Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 Lucky for us God's mercy is His greatest attribute, otherwise we'd get the Divine Justice Smackdown!
Jake Huether Posted July 28, 2004 Author Posted July 28, 2004 I emailed them, and I'm going to send it to PP too. To whom it may concern - I am absolutely appalled and deeply offended that Planned Parenthood would capitalize on such a sensitive issue. I am aware that most women grieve tremendously when they make the "choice" to terminate an unborn baby; an experience known as Post Abortion Syndrome (ref. [url="http://www.abortionfacts.com/PAS/PAS.asp"]http://www.abortionfacts.com/PAS/PAS.asp[/url]. ). To make a buck ($15 to be precise) off an experience that will change a woman's life forever is just plain tacky. I will do everything in my power to make sure that Planned Parenthood takes this marketing tool off their shelves and off their agenda. May God Almighty have mercy on us. And may the 45+ million babies who have been aborted in the US alone since 1970 pray for us, and for an end to the atrocity we call "choice".
homeschoolmom Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 just another example of how abortions are a for-profit business...
Jake Huether Posted July 28, 2004 Author Posted July 28, 2004 Good news and bad news. My work won't allow me on to the Planned Parenthood site. Good news - no one at my work can access their filth. Bad news - I can't email them... Can someone forward my letter to them on my behalf. God bless you all! I am so angry right now, it's hard for me even to type!
catholicguy Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 (edited) [quote]And may the 45+ million babies who have been aborted in the US alone since 1970 pray for us[/quote] I know it is hard to think about the babies who have died; however, it is a mortal sin against the Faith to say that these who have been murdered could be in Heaven. The Church has always firmly stood by the fact that Baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation. St. Augustine on two different occasions the absolute necessity of Baptism in this situation: "If you wish to be a Catholic, do not believe, nor say, nor teach, that infants who die before baptism can obtain the remission of original sin." Even stronger, he stated: "Whoever says that even infants are vivified in Christ when they depart this life without the participation of His Sacrament (Baptism), both opposes the Apostolic preaching and condemns the whole Church which hastens to baptize infants, because it unhesitatingly believes that otherwise they can not possibly be vivified in Christ." It is hard to face the reality, but we must. I don't see why abortion would be such a horrible thing, if all these souls were going to Heaven. And please don't say they have "baptism" of blood. They are not dying for the Faith. Furthermore, such a "baptism" has never been defined by the Church. God bless. Edited July 28, 2004 by catholicguy
Phazzan Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 People can pray from hell can't they? Who was that rich man in hell whatever who prayed for his brothers? In any case, if I was born in the States, Planned Parenthood would've been a hole in the ground years ago. You guys need to get creative. You're being biatch slapped!
catholicguy Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 [quote name='Phazzan' date='Jul 28 2004, 10:30 AM'] People can pray from hell can't they? Who was that rich man in hell whatever who prayed for his brothers? In any case, if I was born in the States, Planned Parenthood would've been a hole in the ground years ago. You guys need to get creative. You're being biatch slapped! [/quote] No, the Church teaches that those in Hell cannot pray for those on earth nor aid them in any way.
Dave Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 (edited) [quote name='catholicguy' date='Jul 28 2004, 11:23 AM'] I know it is hard to think about the babies who have died; however, it is a mortal sin against the Faith to say that these who have been murdered could be in Heaven. The Church has always firmly stood by the fact that Baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation. St. Augustine on two different occasions the absolute necessity of Baptism in this situation: "If you wish to be a Catholic, do not believe, nor say, nor teach, that infants who die before baptism can obtain the remission of original sin." Even stronger, he stated: "Whoever says that even infants are vivified in Christ when they depart this life without the participation of His Sacrament (Baptism), both opposes the Apostolic preaching and condemns the whole Church which hastens to baptize infants, because it unhesitatingly believes that otherwise they can not possibly be vivified in Christ." It is hard to face the reality, but we must. I don't see why abortion would be such a horrible thing, if all these souls were going to Heaven. And please don't say they have "baptism" of blood. They are not dying for the Faith. Furthermore, such a "baptism" has never been defined by the Church. God bless. [/quote] The Church teaches that we have to entrust babies who die withouth baptism to the mercy of God, according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. However, that in no way takes away from the necessity of baptism for salvation. As for St. Augustine, you don't seem to realize that a lot of times the personal opinions of the Early Church Fathers are depicted as Church doctrine. You can say what you want, but the Church has NEVER defined that unbaptized babies go to hell. And if you ignore the teaching of the Church and continue to claim that unbaptized babies are damned, then I'm sorry, but you're the one committing a mortal sin against faith. Baptism of blood and of desire have indeed been defined by the Church, even if only via the ordinary universal Magisterium. Edited July 28, 2004 by Dave
catholicguy Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 [quote name='Dave' date='Jul 28 2004, 11:28 AM'] The Church teaches that we have to entrust babies who die withouth baptism to the mercy of God, according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. However, that in no way takes away from the necessity of baptism for salvation. As for St. Augustine, you don't seem to realize that a lot of times the personal opinions of the Early Church Fathers are depicted as Church doctrine. You can say what you want, but the Church has NEVER defined that unbaptized babies go to hell. And if you ignore the teaching of the Church and continue to claim that unbaptized babies are damned, then I'm sorry, but you're the one committing a mortal sin against faith. Baptism of blood and of desire have indeed been defined by the Church, even if only via the ordinary universal Magisterium. [/quote] OK so if it's supposedly only by ordinary magesterium, it's not a mortal sin against Faith to deny it because it's not infallible nor binding. Furthermore, this has not been defined by anyone for [i]required[/i] belief. I take St. Augustine over the opinion of liberal "theologians" of today. Furthermore, how could a baby have "baptism" of blood if he is not dying for the Faith? How could he have "baptism" of desire if he has no desire whatsoever, since he has no developed intellect to even form an understanding of God or right and wrong, let alone what Baptism is? God bless.
Dave Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 [quote name='catholicguy' date='Jul 28 2004, 03:36 PM'] OK so if it's supposedly only by ordinary magesterium, it's not a mortal sin against Faith to deny it because it's not infallible nor binding. Furthermore, this has not been defined by anyone for [i]required[/i] belief. I take St. Augustine over the opinion of liberal "theologians" of today. Furthermore, how could a baby have "baptism" of blood if he is not dying for the Faith? How could he have "baptism" of desire if he has no desire whatsoever, since he has no developed intellect to even form an understanding of God or right and wrong, let alone what Baptism is? God bless. [/quote] Wrong! Any Church teaching defined by the ordinary universal Magisterium is indeed infallible and binding. The 10 Commandments have never been defined by the extraordinary Magisterium. Neither have moral teachings such as those against contraception and abortion. But they're still infallible and binding. And if theologians are teaching according to what the Church teaches, then you are absolutely wrong to call them liberal. As for the idea that a baby can't have baptism of desire, then according to your logic babies shouldn't even be baptized because they don't have the intellect to know what it is or appreciate it.
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 Semi-related: In my opinion the state has gone over the limits here: [url="http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/03/01/church.contraceptives.ap/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/03/01/church.c...s.ap/index.html[/url]
Moosey Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 (edited) I have this sweatshirt and I looooooooooove it. It says on the front: "I survived" and on the back: "Over 1/3 of our population has been wiped out. Pray to end abortion." [img]http://home.ripway.com/2004-6/134282/Sweatshirt.gif[/img] Edited July 28, 2004 by Moosey
XIX Posted July 29, 2004 Posted July 29, 2004 Yes, I love the sweatshirt! I honestly believe the Planned Parenthood shirts might not cause as much harm as it originally seems. I'll specualte (hopefully I'm right) that such a flagrant assertion will expose them for at least being callous enough to do that. And besides, now nobody can blame us for calling them "pro-abortion."
XIX Posted July 29, 2004 Posted July 29, 2004 [quote name='catholicguy' date='Jul 28 2004, 02:36 PM'] OK so if it's supposedly only by ordinary magesterium, it's not a mortal sin against Faith to deny it because it's not infallible nor binding. Furthermore, this has not been defined by anyone for [i]required[/i] belief. I take St. Augustine over the opinion of liberal "theologians" of today. Furthermore, how could a baby have "baptism" of blood if he is not dying for the Faith? How could he have "baptism" of desire if he has no desire whatsoever, since he has no developed intellect to even form an understanding of God or right and wrong, let alone what Baptism is? God bless. [/quote] By your logic, the canonization of the Holy Innocents is a pure heresy.
daugher-of-Mary Posted July 29, 2004 Posted July 29, 2004 The Church has never said that children who die without Baptism have no hope of salvation. Rather she instructs us to look with hope to God's Mercy which is His greatest attribute. [quote]CCC 1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"63 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism. [/quote]
Jake Huether Posted July 29, 2004 Author Posted July 29, 2004 LOL. I actually was thinking about that as I drove home from work yesterday. Sorry for the confusion... Here's the skinny. An infant is able to be Baptised due to the faith of their Parents. For Baptism does require faith in God - but the Baptism for the child is granted due to the faith given by the parents on behalf of the child (ref. the Centurions slave). That being said... A child might also aquire baptism by desire if had they been born the parents would have Baptised them. That's my thought process anyway... On the note about Lazerous and the Rich Man... The Rich Man was actually in Purgatory, not necessarily Hell (the translation doesn't indicate the Hell of the damned). We know he isn't in hell because he makes a spiritual growth, which is impossible in hell. The Rich Man goes from wanting out, then to caring for his siblings. Prayer and love and caring can not take place in hell. And catholicguy, no one said anything about the aborted babies being in heaven. I simply requested their prayers. These children may or may not be in hell (the Catechism doesn't touch that). It is believed by many Saints that these kids are simply withheld the beatific vision (which we on earth are withheld also). Therefore, if these children are anywhere but hell, they can still pray. It isn't a mortal sin to request the prayers of babies who may or may not be in heaven, hell, or otherwise. Requesting prayer isn't a mortal sin. It is a mortal sin to request prayers, or divination from someone who you know is in hell. And it is may be a mortal sin to teach, contrary to that of the Church, that these children are in heaven. Again, however, it isn't a mortal sin to ask for prayer. No prayer goes un answered. And if these kids can't pray, the good Lord will re-direct my request elsewhere.
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