Catholic Education Is A Must

[mom25angels]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Jul 30 2004, 12:53 AM'] It varies by state as to the requirements, but I think this is basically true. In MN a four year degree is not even required, but there's more hoop-jumping if you don't have one. [/quote]
Thank goodness I live in IL, no jumping through hoops here

Homeschools are considered private schools and not subject to state interference!

[ilovechrist]

here homeschools.... i'm not sure. i'll have to ask my mom, since she's the teacher, but i believe we have to be especially approved by the State to become official.

our Church is now planning to open their own Catholic School in the fall of 2005

[MagiDragon]

Hmmm . . . I hate to damper everyones spirits on Catholic schools, but . . .

I went to Catholic schools for k-12, and i think they are probably some of the worst hotbeds of heresy anywhere. When you go to a Catholic school, you tend to think that what they teach is what the Church teaches. This is *very* dangerous. Everything must be taken with a grain of salt.

Many Catholic school teachers are less than orthodox.

If you send your kids to a public school, you can tell them, "Not everything you hear is what the Church teaches." But, you don't want them to have that barrier when they go to a Catholic school.

That said, i don't think Catholic schools are *bad.* They just aren't *good.* Many of the teachers are wonderful, orthodox individuals. Especially in my diocese we have some great priests and teachers. (FWSB has a great Bishop. Bishop John M. D'Arcy has kept us out of scandal and kept the applicants for the seminary flowing.)

Also, I have a friend that was in my class at high school, she's now studying Theology at Xavier. She's already lined up a job at Bishop Luers High School (My old school) when she graduates. She supports women priests, married priests, 'inclusive language,' and 'ecological theology.' And she thinks Opus Dei is a diabolical force in the Church. (Needless to say, i'll be working to stop her less orthodox ideas from reaching Luers.)

Peace,
Joe

Edited July 30, 2004 by MagiDragon

[daugher-of-Mary]

[quote]I went to Catholic schools for k-12, and i think they are probably some of the worst hotbeds of heresy anywhere. When you go to a Catholic school, you tend to think that what they teach is what the Church teaches. This is *very* dangerous. Everything must be taken with a grain of salt. [/quote]

Word. Sending your kids to a Catholic school is commendable, but for heaven's sake, look at the school first and make sure it is orthodox! The religion classes at my school are ridiculous...luckily nobody takes it seriously, because ideas like female priesthood were being taught.

[mom25angels]

[quote name='daugher-of-Mary' date='Jul 30 2004, 09:10 PM']
Word. Sending your kids to a Catholic school is commendable, but for heaven's sake, look at the school first and make sure it is orthodox! The religion classes at my school are ridiculous...luckily nobody takes it seriously, because ideas like female priesthood were being taught. [/quote]
There was a teacher at my high school that wouldn't let students us masculine pronouns in reference to God when reading from the Bible. You either had to pause or add God in place of He or Him. She is no longer there, thank goodness.

Really though at our parish school religion is very orthodox. We have a wonderfull pastor and DRE but not all the teacher's are quite so enthusiastic. Many of the parents complain that too much time is spent praying/going to mass(ugh).
The ability to have religion [i]permeate and direct evry branch of knowledge [/i]
is one of the main reasons we homeschool our children. I just can't see relegating our faith to one subject a day!!

[Oik]

Secular schooling = junk
Catholic Schooling = hard to find good, bad ones all around
Home Schooling = good way if parents are good teachers/mentors

Secular schools are terrible and I refuse to send any children I might have (in the future cus i'm not married) to daily refuse. I am not willing to subject any one to the awful subtles of hatred (for christians and catholics and even religion) or other tortures for the sake of a poor state-funded education (depending on state). Things like the taking care of a fake baby bit or sex-education.

Catholic schooling is good, provided that it is an orthodox school like daughter-of-mary said. My experience with catholic school was terrible. The kids were brutal and the adminitration refused to do anything because they were the kids of the "hefty-donating" families. And to top it all, not even all the teachers are/were catholic! I think Magidragon's decription of catholic school is fairly accurate.

Homeschooling, isn't perfect. However, the beauty anf Glory comes in the light of the fact that children get the attention they need. It's not fool-proof, but if you want you children to champion, then make it fool-proof. Think about the problems before they arise. Most of the complaints I hear about homeschooling are direct results of bad TEACHING, but bad methods (read method, in the sense of how the structure of educating is carried out). I totally don't think that bad social skills are any result of homeschooling, but poor parenting (read: not all parents teach thier children good social skills).

I can't really say that everone needs to homeschool, but I will INSIST that all that are called to the married vocation begin thinking about the effects/affects of thier choices on thier children.

[Philippe]

u must have misunderstood... im not a teacher... im a student

i try and be an openly Catholic student in my secular school and i try and be a good witness

thats wat i feel my vocation in this sense is

every second of our live's is a different vocation

just cause i said vocation doesnt mean im discerning priesthood

i could go 2 the abbey school i suppose, its a boarding school, but i choose to teach my peers as a student and as a witness instead because i think lots of people dont understand

[MagiDragon]

[quote name='Philippe' date='Jul 31 2004, 03:26 AM'] i try and be an openly Catholic student in my secular school and i try and be a good witness

thats wat i feel my vocation in this sense is [/quote]
interesting point. what happens to the public school kids when there's no longer a serious Catholic around to show the way? A parent must first and foremost try to protect their children, but when can the children take on the responsibility of being a good example in the school system? I think many kids who are taught by good Catholics may be ready by 7th-8th grade, and certainly all *should* be ready after Confirmation. (unfortunately *should* and *are* don't necessarily coincide.)

At what point are we no longer protecting the innocent, but rather keeping the workers from their harvest?

Peace,
Joe

[mom25angels]

[quote name='MagiDragon' date='Jul 31 2004, 07:46 AM']

At what point are we no longer protecting the innocent, but rather keeping the workers from their harvest?

Peace,
Joe [/quote]
Interesting question. I'd say that in order for our kids to be witnesses of their faith they do not have to be in a public (or catholic) school. My kids certainly have friends who are in school. They also meet new kids through outside activities such as boy scouts(not GSA! but that's another thread), sports, swimming lessons, drama etc.. They certainly have ample oppurtunity to witness during this time. In fact the fact that we homeschool usually makes this a natural conversation as kids(and parents) are always full of questions about the hows and whys of homeschooling. My first impulse was to answer "in high school" but I'm really not so sure. At that age most kids, not all, are very concerned about how and what their peers think. They are also easily influenced by what they see and hear from teachers. So, unless you have a particularly strong high schooler I would say keep them home, build them up and then let them lose to change the world!!

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]Well, there's a little bit of a difference between Social Problems('tis funny you capitalized this) and just not knowing how a clasroom works. You see when you homeschool there is no need to line up to go to the bathroom, lunch or recess. There is no waiting in line to ask a teacher a question or raising your hand.[/quote]

First let me explain about the capitalization issue, there is no vocal inflection capable on a message board so I tend to capitalize anything I want to give special attention to, I realize that Italics would be more correct but I am not writing a formal document here and Italics are a big pain to put on things regularly, Morethan that I do have a tendency to write like a 17th and eightennth century person and Capitalize any Idea which I think is crucial to a statement or Arguement, I am careful in Formal writing but it is a habit which developed after reading volumous works of those ages, and I am not an English teacher so I really don't care if it is a bad habit.

Now I am well aware that they have trouble with how classroom works, however much of our society works like a classroom, from tours at the museum to a wait at the Social Security office and so not understanding thing like turns is a big deal. Now I am not just speakng of this NONE of the Homeschool children I have come across have interelated well with Children of differant races ar cultural backgrounds NONE of them, most have been generally shy and not outgoing in any way. Most of them frankly have had had quite inferior education in one or more subjects for example they might be ahead in Math but know no History or they might be reading 6 grade levels above there grade but not know there times tables, or even more often not have read entire types of books, they tend to resist reading anything that they do not like or understanding the basic truth that sometimes you have to understand things you don't like.


[quote]have to agree with popestpius here that the kids in our homeschooling group are amongst the best "socialized" kids I know. The can and do play with kids of varying ages. The can talk to adults in a respectfull and intelligent manner. And for the most part are just easier to get along with. With forty families in our Catholic homeschooling group all with kids a variety of ages, I've met quite a few homeschooled kids.
[/quote]


Are these 40 families educated together or in groups, several " homeschooling" groups in my area have Parents teach particular subjects and have groups of 10 or more students meet at that persons house and have History day, or Science Day or what ever-- This is not Homeschooling this is an unorthodox school, and tendes in my experiance and the experance of most teacher I have talked to to have better results particularly with children above 10.

[Don John of Austria]

I will have to comment on Catholic Education in a bit as I have to go for now, but I will say this, if the Catholic schools in your area are Junk then it is Your Fault, If you and yours allow Heresy to be taught in your schools and simply withdraw to your home then you are falling down in your Catholic duty to your Children and to all the Children in the Community of the Church who attend that School.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jul 31 2004, 01:58 PM'] I will have to comment on Catholic Education in a bit as I have to go for now, but I will say this, if the Catholic schools in your area are Junk then it is Your Fault, If you and yours allow Heresy to be taught in your schools and simply withdraw to your home then you are falling down in your Catholic duty to your Children and to all the Children in the Community of the Church who attend that School. [/quote]
One can only do so much and I am not about to subject my children to the carp they teach in Catholic schools now.

[mom25angels]

Dear Don john,
I wasn't commenting on your use of capitalization in so far as it being gramatically incorrect. What I meant was that you were capitalizing to show emphasis. One of the biggest problems people have with homeschooling is that they think our kids grow up to be social misfits who can't carry on a conversation.
That is why I commented on your use of capitalization. I don't grade anyone else's use of grammer , only my own kid's
As far as many parts of the world working as a classroom, I respectfully disagree. Yes you may wait in line at the Social Security office as an adult, but I'm almost sure that most adults could figure out how to do it even if they didn't have to as children. Tours at museums, well, we have been on those and the kids have managed pretty well. In fact the last time we took a tour the guide did nothing but comment on how well behaved our kids were. It wasn't social time for them, they were there to learn.
As to homschooling children being more capable in some areas in others I would agree wholeheartedly with you. I would also say that my dd when I pulled her out of school was definetly behind in math but ahead in reading and language arts. I think this is a common occurence in schools as well as homeschools. I myself don't know my times tables very well and I was never educated at home.
The forty families in my homeschooling group all educate their children at home. Our homeschooling group is a support group. The children do meet at activities and on field trips but it is not a co-op.

Now as far as our local Catholic schools and their problems being my fault, it just isn't so. I did not take my daughter out of catholic school because they were teaching heresy. They weren't and they aren't. In fact the school has a wonderfull DRE and pastor. The school has it's problems but heresy is certainly not one of them. I do know families in other diocese who have decided to homeschool because of this and I would support them in doing so. They tried to affect change and could not. I removed my daughter from school and decided to keep my others home because the school and parents was not adequately educating her or her calssmates on how to LIVE their faith, how to be accountable for their actions or how to behave in a Christian way. Educating my children, the children God has entrusted to me and given me the authority to educate, is of the utmost importance. It is the most important task, aside from living a holy marriage, that God has commanded me to fullfill. I must do the very best for my children. Taking them out of a school that is endangering their soul is required of me by God and His Church. I have not abandoned Catholic education. I am providing the best Catholic education I can to my childen and to any child who walks through my door. I also coordinate VBS for our parish and our school. I am in no way turning my back on Catholic schools.
I have chosen to homeschool my children with the full approval of my pastor and my spiritual director. I am fullfilling my duty as a mother and as a Catholic.
Catholic education at home is more about living a Catholic way of life than bashing or abandoning parish schools. In order for my children to learn to be Catholics they must live like a Catholics.

PAX,
Sarah

[PedroX]

Mom25,

I appreciate your points, and I certainly support your right to educate your children as you see fit. However, I think you proved Don's point (somehow I always end up sticking up for Don)

You pulled your kids out of Catholic school because you were unhappy with the way they were teaching (or not teaching) the faith. It may not have been heresy, but it was apparently sloppy application. Did you take steps to affect change? I'm not accusing you (or anybody else), but I have to say I see Don's point on this. Too often, we cry foul and remove ourselves from the situation. It is analagous to the suburbs. Don't like the way life in the city is going? Well, move on out. When do we stay, and act as agents of redemption? In some ways, this is what the members of SSPX (some of whom I'm proud to call friend) are doing.

Just some random late nite thoughts.

peace...

[mom25angels]

Well PedroX, I sure did and in fact in a way still do by staying active in our parish and through VBS. Our pastor has tried too. It's very difficult to affect the change of heart of parent's and teacher's within a school. Don't get me wrong there are some fine teacher's but there are others who don't have the vocation to teach in a Cathlc school(or any school really). I pray daily for Catholic education and educators. But to tell you the truth if tomorrow I woke up and there was a perfect school available I don' think I would send my kids to it. I see the immense benefits to homeschooling and to our family life and I won't want to change it. I really like my kids. I like sharing our faith all day; during history, math, science and whatever other subjects we are tackling in our day. I know this is what God is calling us to do in our family because He wouldn't stop asking me to do it untill I did.

I do like Fr.Hardon's quote. He says "Homeschooling in the United States is the neccessary concomitant of a culture in which the Church is being opposed on every level of her existence;and as a consequence, given the widespread secularization in our country, Home Schooling is not only valuable or usefull, in my judgement, Home Schooling is absolutely necessary for the survival of the Catholic Church in our country."

[Archbishop 10-K]

I've gone to public school my entire life, and I'm a junior in high school now. While I'd send my future kids (if I don't become a priest) to Catholic school, my public school experience has actually been useful for me. I'm actually the only serious Catholic I know at my high school. Because of the challenge, I got interested in apologetics and study and defense of the faith. My private study has probably been fuller than any Catholic school education. At Catholic school, you'd probably take the faith for granted and maybe give it up when you go to college.

Now, if I had a choice to go to Catholic school next year, I would refuse because I'm afraid that if I'm not being a "good Catholic" at my public school, then I'd lose potential converts. Also, the anti-Catholicism (which is absolutely rampant) would go unchecked.

Thoughts on this experience?

[mom25angels]

[quote name='Archbishop 10-K' date='Aug 1 2004, 05:46 AM']

Thoughts on this experience? [/quote]
I think that it is wonderfull that you've stepped up to the challenge of our Catholic Faith!! But you said yourself that you're the only serious Catholic that you know at your school. You are an exception to the rule!

[Rocco]

While Catholic schools seem to have their hearts in the right place their are some problems that come up. For example, the fact that non-catholics are allowed in catholic schools. While i believe that as catholics we should reach out the those who are non catholic. i think that by allowing them to be educated along with our young catholics we are not helping our young people foster their vocations. Also, i think that by having non-catholic teachers teach catholic students is asking for trouble. How can we trust our children to learn their faith the way that they are supposed to from someone who doesnt know our religion to begine with. In highschools around here it is the catholic school kids that people want to party with because they have the best parties. This should not be the case the catholic school kids should be the most holy and most unlikely to commit crimes.

Rocco

[MagiDragon]

[quote name='Rocco' date='Aug 2 2004, 10:39 AM']In highschools around here it is the catholic school kids that people want to party with because they have the best parties.  This should not be the case the catholic school kids should be the most holy and most unlikely to commit crimes.

Rocco[/quote]
Hey! Luers isn't that bad!!!























. . . ummmm . . . ok, maybe it is . . . but there are still a fair number of good people that go there . . .

oh, Andrew, the Opus Dei meeting for tomorrow may be off, i'll let yah know . . .

Peace,
Joe

[Rocco]

Yeah ok

Rocco