Ex-seminarian Michael Moore Misrepresents Catholic

[ironmonk]

[url="http://michnews.com/artman/publish/article_4595.shtml"]http://michnews.com/artman/publish/article_4595.shtml[/url]


[b]Ex-seminarian Michael Moore Misrepresents Catholic Church[/b]

By David F. Waechter
Aug 5, 2004

In his speech at the 2003 Academy Awards, film-maker Michael Moore said that he likes nonfiction, and he complained about living in "fictitious times". These were surprising words considering that Moore had recently published his book "Stupid White Men", which attributes fictitious doctrines to the Catholic Church. What is even more surprising is that not only is Moore Roman Catholic, but according to a bio-piece which appeared in the Toronto Sun (Aug 17, 2003), he once spent a year in a Jesuit seminary.

In chapter 8 of his book Moore presents a satirical solution to the conflict in Northern Ireland: convert enough Protestants to achieve a Catholic majority. He then lists advantages of being Roman Catholic. He includes "one guy in charge" and "a free drink of wine" at Mass. These have enough truth to suggest that, although satirical, authenticity was intended. But he then submits that being Catholic provides "a guaranteed spot in heaven" and that only Catholics "get past the velvet rope at the pearly gates". Those who are not Catholic will "burn in hell for eternity". These contradict articles 837 and 847 of the official "Catechism of the Catholic Church". Moore moved seamlessly from nonfiction to fiction, while providing the reader no means to distinguish them.

Article 837 of the Catholic Catechism states in part "even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved". During the reformation it was Martin Luther who proposed "justification by faith alone". The Catholic Church held that this was insufficient and that works were also required. My point here is not to argue the theological issue, but merely to note that Moore assigned a view to the Catholic Church that it does not hold. And a former seminarian should know better.

Article 847 of the Catechism states in part: "those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation". As Pope John Paul II explained in his encyclical "The Splendor of Truth", salvation is open to all.

According to Moore’s web site, "Stupid White Men" has been translated into 24 languages and sold over 3 million copies worldwide. His misinformation has spread to the far reaches of the globe. Fictitious times indeed.

Edited August 6, 2004 by ironmonk

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

He still practices Catholicism?

[phatcatholic]

this guy's freakin killin me........

[MC Just]

[quote name='thedude' date='Aug 5 2004, 08:41 PM'] He still practices Catholicism? [/quote]
no he's practicing kerrolicism...lol

[MorphRC]

I wonder if he was a good practicing Catholic, if you people would be so condemning . Just a Thought.

Edited August 6, 2004 by MorphRC

[ironmonk]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Aug 6 2004, 09:17 AM'] I wonder if he was a good practicing Catholic, if you people would be so condemning . Just a Thought. [/quote]
To be a good practicing Catholic, he would have to stop lying.

If he was a good practicing Catholic, he would have not have lied in the movie.

If he was a good practicing Catholic, he would not have lied about the Catholic Church teachings above.

If he was a good practicing Catholic there would be nothing bad to say about him.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[MorphRC]

Oh please. Become God first, then you can judge without biasim.

Typical Bushist propaganda

[jasJis]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Aug 8 2004, 09:30 AM'] Oh please. Become God first, then you can judge without biasim.

Typical Bushist propaganda [/quote]
The word would be 'bias'. Using the phrase "Typical Bushist propaganda" concretely demonstrates bias.

Challenge Iron Monk to a debate instead of just tossing out biased labels. (unless you're just working on your post count)

[MorphRC]

I dont need to debate. I already know Bush is a terrorist.

[jasJis]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Aug 8 2004, 10:15 AM'] I dont need to debate. I already know Bush is a terrorist. [/quote]
Typical shortsighted, history ignoring, biased, anti-American propaganda.

[MorphRC]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Aug 9 2004, 01:49 AM'] Typical shortsighted, history ignoring, biased, anti-American propaganda. [/quote]
No.

Short-Stated Obvious Fact.
History-Proving
Anti-US Admin

I got nothing against the American people. Just the imperialistic administration.

[Chucho]

Since you want to be called Bushido Boy, I'll call you Bushido Boy.

Bushido Boy,

For anyone to say that Moore was not a good practicing Catholic is not from some quick judgmental defensive attitude. All it is, is analyzing the statements he makes that are, in my opinion, explicitly uneducated. I certainly would not say that a Catholic who thinks the Precious Blood of our Lord is some draught of wine is educated of Church teaching, or he just doesn't believe. Just like Kerry, he should not represent himself as a Catholic if he contradicts the Church's teachings, esp. teachings like the Eucharist and salvation. It's judging his statements, not his heart.

[b]Edit:[/b]grammar stuff

Edited August 8, 2004 by Chucho

[ironmonk]

little bro,

Moore is not a good Catholic. A good Catholic study's his faith, because the Church teaches that it is our responsibility to know our faith. A good Catholic does not lie numerous times in a movie he makes and then calls it a documentary. A good Catholic of Moore's ages should know some of the fundemental teachings of the Catholic Church ESPECIALLY SINCE HE WAS A SEMINARIAN (my caps are for stress emphesis, not yelling) at one time.

Did you read the first post on this thread?

[quote]he then submits that being Catholic provides "a guaranteed spot in heaven" and that only Catholics "get past the velvet rope at the pearly gates". Those who are not Catholic will "burn in hell for eternity". [/quote]


A good Catholic that was a seminarian WOULD NEVER HAVE STATED THAT.


Bush is not a terrorist. He had the senate's ok for about six to nine months before we first attacked. If you call bush a terrorist, you must call all the senators that voted to give him the power to go to war.

You've got a lot to learn. You really should not debate what you don't know. You stated that you are Catholic now in your title, then you should know what a good Catholic is, and know that it's not Moore. Maybe you are a Newbie, which is fine, but do a little more study from more than one side.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[Maddalena]

It's bad Catholics like Michael Moore that give people a bad view on the Catholic faith. He makes my blood boil. e.e *grumbles*

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Aug 8 2004, 11:33 AM'] No.

Short-Stated Obvious Fact.
History-Proving
Anti-US Admin

I got nothing against the American people. Just the imperialistic administration. [/quote]
Uh-huh...Imperialistic...

Several times I have shown why the wars were not for oil. Several times I have shown America's good intentions. You never rebutt my points. You just continue to state the same propagandistic points. Please, try to bring some facts into it.

I bet you even think that Bush is unrightfully the president, too...

I don't know why anti-Americans can't bother to learn their American politics and history.

[MorphRC]

Yeah. All reasons based on lies.

[b]Several times I have shown America's good intentions.[/b]

Whats that old saying on good intentions

[b]You just continue to state the same propagandistic points. [/b]

Unlike Bush

[b]I bet you even think that Bush is unrightfully the president, too...[/b]

When black votes werent allowed, id say so.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Aug 9 2004, 01:07 AM'] Yeah. All reasons based on lies.

[b]Several times I have shown America's good intentions.[/b]

Whats that old saying on good intentions

[b]You just continue to state the same propagandistic points. [/b]

Unlike Bush

[b]I bet you even think that Bush is unrightfully the president, too...[/b]

When black votes werent allowed, id say so. [/quote]
Bro...

It was 2000... not 1900.

Why do you believe the liberal media that hates our Church? Do you think they'll give you the truth when they are constantly attacking the Church and trying to make her problems out bigger than they are?

The black vote thing not allowed was a big lie.... Democrats ran the voting places...three counties in question, Palm Beach, Broward, Miami-Dade.


This is the truth....

the news media conducted six months of exhaustive surveys and counting of the ballots in four different ways, and no matter how they did it, Bush won. No matter how. Even factoring in all these so-called accused people that were disenfranchised. They looked into that. They didn't find any evidence. As it is with them, it's not the nature of the evidence that matters, it's the seriousness of the charge. So, just make the charge. Doesn't have to be any evidence. In fact, there could be zero evidence. In fact, there could be evidence that contradicts the charge, but that doesn't matter, because the seriousness of the charge is what allows the investigation. The charge is the equivalent of a conviction. And so that's why they do it.



Just as kerry is making the charge that the Swiftboatvets.com guys are fakes, without a shread of proof, but there is no proof, because they are the real deal.

[url="http://www.Swiftboatvets.com"]http://www.Swiftboatvets.com[/url]


Bro, you have to start listening to more than one side and then draw a educated conclusion.

God Bless,
ironmonk