amarkich Posted August 14, 2004 Posted August 14, 2004 bump, is there any [i]valid [/i]argument against his points??
MichaelFilo Posted August 14, 2004 Posted August 14, 2004 Heh, maybe if Jeff/Apotheun took a look at it. However, I am sure with it's popularity, they have already, and chosen not to respond. It is too bad, if any valid points could be made and defended, they would know them. Still praying that you choose to not let in to your desires. I hope the idea goes away as fast as it came to you. God bless, Mikey
amarkich Posted August 14, 2004 Posted August 14, 2004 I will pray also. I think it is sad that Catholics (in any age) are less reverent toward their bodies than the pagans or heathens of old!
MichaelFilo Posted August 14, 2004 Posted August 14, 2004 I'm really in a debate type mood actually. However, I think that no one will try. However, if anyone still disagrees, it'd be nice to know why. In hopes that all decisions about tattoos are made with the mind set that our bodies are holy temples. God bless, Michael
Carrie Posted August 15, 2004 Posted August 15, 2004 I still disagree, but I've made my points already. I don't think your argument disproves any of my points but that is your opinion. Frankly, I'm tired of going in circles and nothing I say is satisfactory to you. Maybe someone with better apologetic skills than I have can respond to you. And I'm sorry you feel that I'm not reverant towards my body. Again, that is how you feel, not how I feel. You're not convincing me and I'm not convincing you. For now, let's agree to disagree.
MichaelFilo Posted August 15, 2004 Posted August 15, 2004 I cannot stress enough how much I care to not agree to disagree. All your points are addressed. I gave you a response to all of them. We are not beating a circular path, instead you are running into a brick wall, as do all of those who oppose the will of the Church. PLEASE listen, since you don't like any of my points, then please tell me, would Jesus get a tattoo? Would it glorify God? Would Mary gete a tattoo? Would that glorify God? Your excuse that we don't know what they think or their will isn't a response. We know what Jesus wanted, and so we have Church and the Bible to tell us. We know what Mary wanted, and she wanted what Jesus wanted. I guess I'll have to use some protestant thinking here when I ask What would Jesus do? Please keep in mind, it's not how you or I see it, but how God sees it. I sometimes didn't like having to do stuff that God wanted, but only when we submit our own views as useless, do we gain His views, and will for us. So please, lets not argue what you want, after all, we all want sainthood, right? God bless, Mikey Postscriptum Anyone willing to debate the other points, feel free to jump on in. I will be praying for you tommorow at mass to not fulfill your own desires and fulfill the will of God.
Christina Posted August 15, 2004 Author Posted August 15, 2004 [quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Aug 12 2004, 05:57 PM'] Christina, we would like to know what your final decision is, only because I'd hate to go pray at Church that you would take some solid advice over an urge to do something, and the whole time I'd be praying for the impossible, to undo your decision. God bless, Mikey [/quote] Well, as it stands right now I haven't decided, but will let you all know. Thanks for your prayers.
Carrie Posted August 15, 2004 Posted August 15, 2004 I take great offense at your implication that I oppose the will of the Church. You don't know me well enough to make such an implication. I live my life based on the Church and I am a very faithful and obedient Catholic. The Church does not condemn tattoos and therefore, I am not opposing the will of the Church. I'm done with this conversation. Peace, Carrie
MichaelFilo Posted August 15, 2004 Posted August 15, 2004 While my intent isn't to offend you, you are supporting something that is against what the Church teaches (even if not outright, but then again, I explained why). You made no spiritual consideration on this, but gave logical reasoning (that I refuted) and we would all agree that getting a tattoo isn't something Jesus would do, and he is the perfect example of what we should be like, isn't he? God bless, Mikey
cmotherofpirl Posted August 15, 2004 Posted August 15, 2004 The Church has not issued a papal bull on the subject of tattoos. Somehow I really don't think it will, so lets have a little charity, shall we? You don't like tattoos fine, but not pretend you speak for the Catholic Church, because you don't. Your opinons are your own.
MichaelFilo Posted August 15, 2004 Posted August 15, 2004 (edited) ::sigh:: One last shot at this. The Church may never officially state it's wrong. We have to make reasonable conclusions. From one teaching to the other, we can conclude on certain things. In the light of teaching that our bodies are in the image of God, we should realize we cannot improve upon this image, so we should keep it the same, since everything else doesn't do it justice. In the teaching that self-mutiliation is wrong, one must have to agree to get their body mutiliated for the tattoo to be placed. In the light of vanity, we turn to the book of Eccl. and realize how much is vain. We can easily put tattoos under vain if hard work is also in vain. In the light of Mary as the perfect example of what a Christian should be, we can conclude she would never get a tattoo, because it doesn't do anything to make her a better Christian. In the light of the fact that Jesus told us to reject desires, and instead submit to the will of God, we can conclude that a tattoo is a desire that goes away in time. The will of God doesn't. In the light of the websites mission statement (not something taught throughout the Church, but it's fairly valid) our ultimate goal is sainthood. We know of no saints with tattoos. We know that getting a tattoo cannot serve to glorify God, and all the saints do or did (mostly) was glorify God, in their wisdom, miracles, teaching, and works. It is not an ex Cathedra statement, but then again, neither was the errors of Sola Scriptura until it became a real big problem. God bless, Mikey Edited August 15, 2004 by MichaelFilo
Oik Posted August 15, 2004 Posted August 15, 2004 I doubt that the Church will ever issue a papal bull on the most efficient method of transportation either. Why? Probably because culture and trends change and the church is only concerned with what is universal. Are Tattoos a sin? I have to agree with other people when (in this thread) it is said that only the intention determines the nature (on this subject). However, the question is, what is a good intention to get a tattoo (to glorify the Lord is not, so please delve deeper if that is your reasoning)?
IcePrincessKRS Posted August 16, 2004 Posted August 16, 2004 In light of some of the most recent comments and the fact that this thread has pretty much ceased to be productive, I'm going to close it and put this to rest for awhile. Everyone has said their piece and no one is convincing anyone of anything. Hush-hush, Thread. Go to sleep.
Recommended Posts