Kneel At Consecration

[toledo_jesus]

I personally kneel, but my home parish doesn't.

[cmotherofpirl]

Parishes in the US do not have a choice.

[toledo_jesus]

what do you mean?
I've been wondering if I am wrong to kneel when the 'communal posture' is standing.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Aug 11 2004, 07:15 PM'] what do you mean?
I've been wondering if I am wrong to kneel when the 'communal posture' is standing. [/quote]
The posture for Roman Rite Catholics in the United States is to kneel from the end of the Sanctus to the Great Amen, and anything else is an abuse of the particular law approved by the Apostolic See for use in America. The universal law of the Roman Rite is to kneel specifically during the consecration, and no particular Church can dispense from that norm, without the prior [i]recognitio[/i] of the Holy See.

God bless,
Todd

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Aug 11 2004, 07:15 PM'] what do you mean?
I've been wondering if I am wrong to kneel when the 'communal posture' is standing. [/quote]
If you are kneeling from the end of the Sanctus to the Great Amen, then you are doing what you are supposed to be doing, and everyone else is doing the wrong thing.

God bless,
Todd

[toledo_jesus]

what if the 'worship space' is not equipped with kneelers? That's how my home parish is. We only just broke ground on our 'real' church building. For the past 12 years or so we've been meeting in our common area. Not really a Sacred place.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Aug 11 2004, 07:26 PM'] what if the 'worship space' is not equipped with kneelers? That's how my home parish is. We only just broke ground on our 'real' church building. For the past 12 years or so we've been meeting in our common area. Not really a Sacred place. [/quote]
It should be equiped with kneelers and if it is not, people should kneel anyway. Whatever liturgist designed your "worship space" needs to be fired. It is possible to get kneelers even in a temporary "worship space," because I've seen them. Kneeling is required in the Roman Rite during the consecration by universal law, and it is required by the particular law of the diocese in the United States from the end of the Sanctus to the Great Amen. Twelve years is more than enough time to get kneelers in place.

God bless,
Todd

[toledo_jesus]

Apotheoun, you are always awesome with the info.

Now do you (or anyone else) know how to convince a female pastoral coordinator that liturgical abuses have been happening in her parish for nigh on 12 years? As I used some of what you said in a 'eucharistic ministers' thread, in an attempt to address the constant use of EMoHCs, I feel I should tell you the response. They follow:
1. It's how we do things.
2. We are not a people of rubrics.
3. The (former) bishop lets us.
One ray of hope- our new bishop appointed a diocesan theologian, a post vacant since 1998. My pastoral coordinator told me that if I really wanted to address the issue I should talk to him. That's cool.

I do not feel bad about kneeling anymore.

[cmotherofpirl]

If the rubrics say kneel you kneel.
The only exceptions are if you are an auditorium with something like fixed seating where you absolutely cannot get down.

[cmotherofpirl]

[url="http://www.diopitt.org/socialconcerns/GIRM2000.pdf"]http://www.diopitt.org/socialconcerns/GIRM2000.pdf[/url]

This is Church law, give her as copy, rubrics are NOT optional.

This is Church law it is NOT optional:
[url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congrega...amentum_en.html[/url]


You can write to the Papal Nuncio who reports to the Pope. You have a right to have a faithful Catholic Liturgy!!!!!

[stagefairy]

Does anyone know about Canada? My Parish kneels just during the consecration, but then stands right after the "Christ has Died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again" part. I kneel until after the great amen and after the Lamb of God, because that is how I was raised in my church in Texas. Also, when I lived in the Yukon, nobody kneeled at all. Not even during the conscration. It really bothered me. I kneeled. But I was alone!

[cmotherofpirl]

[url="http://www.intratext.com/X/ENG0012.htm"]http://www.intratext.com/X/ENG0012.htm[/url]

[nikkan_hanil]

I kneel, but I also do so when I recieve the Body as well. I think I'm the only one in my parish who does that.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='stagefairy' date='Aug 11 2004, 08:13 PM'] Does anyone know about Canada? My Parish kneels just during the consecration, but then stands right after the "Christ has Died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again" part. I kneel until after the great amen and after the Lamb of God, because that is how I was raised in my church in Texas. Also, when I lived in the Yukon, nobody kneeled at all. Not even during the conscration. It really bothered me. I kneeled. But I was alone! [/quote]
I don't know the particular law for the Roman Rite Churches in Canada, but the Church's universal law requires kneeling at least during the consecration, and only the Apostolic See can dispense from that universal norm. So, I would say you must at a minimum kneel for the consecration, and longer if the particular law of the Canadian Churches, which must receive the [i]recognitio[/i] of the Holy See, requires it.

God bless,
Todd

[toledo_jesus]

AAAHHH I just wrote a letter to my diocesan theologian! About 'Eucharistic Ministers!'

eep.

[Paladin D]

My parish doesn't have kneelers. Though we may be getting some since we have an architect who will expand and redesign our current parish.

[M.SIGGA]

what if the priest says otherwise? I know of 4 parishes that still do kneel, but the priests there said it's according to whatever a particular priest commands at his particular parish, meaning it can either be to stand or to kneel.

[Dave]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Aug 12 2004, 02:02 AM'] what if the priest says otherwise? I know of 4 parishes that still do kneel, but the priests there said it's according to whatever a particular priest commands at his particular parish, meaning it can either be to stand or to kneel. [/quote]
No priest has the authority to change the rubrics, not even the ones to kneel at certain times. So if a priest commanded his parish to stand during the consecration, the congregation would be bound NOT to obey.

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='Dave' date='Aug 12 2004, 01:16 AM'] No priest has the authority to change the rubrics, not even the ones to kneel at certain times. So if a priest commanded his parish to stand during the consecration, the congregation would be bound NOT to obey. [/quote]
whatabout respect for the priest? As a kid I was taught sort of differently about how to act towards priests. Would it be better if such a priest commanded such a thing to listen, and then ask afterwards?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Aug 11 2004, 11:23 PM'] whatabout respect for the priest? As a kid I was taught sort of differently about how to act towards priests. Would it be better if such a priest commanded such a thing to listen, and then ask afterwards? [/quote]
No, because you cannot obey a priest who orders you to do something contrary to the law of the Church; and both Vatican II and the [u]Code of Canon Law[/u] state quite clearly, that the regulation of the sacred liturgy is reserved to the Supreme Authority of the Church alone, and thus, no one, not even a priest, may add, remove, or change, anything in the liturgy. [cf. [u]Code of Canon Law[/u], canon 846 § 1; cf. Vatican II, [u]Sacrosanctum Concilium[/u], no. 22, art. 3]

Edited August 12, 2004 by Apotheoun