I Was Reading Cmom's Post On The Blogy Thing

[Iacobus]

I read it last nite and than read it again today... I am glad that guy is out of there. And I saw that with nothing to do with the whole Fordham deal. I could care less about that right now. He doesn't seem very Chirstian to me.

[quote]I argued, loudly, that the election of John Kerry would be a disaster for the Church. My first press statement after his nomination was that Church institutions -- parishes, schools, hospitals, etc. -- should be off limits to Kerry or anyone who wants to use the platform of the Catholic Church to undermine its authority and attack its teachings.[/quote]

I wonder if he says "Lord I am not worthy to recive you but only say the word and I shall be healed" at Mass. Kerry is a sinner, yes. If ANYONE should be going to Church insitiutions it should be a sinner. Kerry is in mortal sin so he shouldn't go to Catholic parishes, schools, or hospitals?

I don't know how many times I have entered my parish in a state of sin. I need to be cleaned of those mortal sins and restored to a state of grace. How can I do that without going to a parish?

Say Mr Kerry changes his view on abortion, doubtful but possible, he is going to need a confessional. So we try to deny him use of our Churchs.

Is that a new rule? I knew that one shouldn't recive communion in a state of sin but entering the church? That is new to me.

And entering hospitals? The Catholic hospital should treat all in need. Christ himself "treated" people with really bad sins. In Luke he casts demons out of Mary Magdela (sp?). And the woman at his feet that he told to "Go and sin no more." Christ sought out the sinners to heal them of their sins. If Christ was a director of a hospital would he refuse to treat someone because of their sins?

To say that the use of Catholic insitutions by Mr Kerry or anyone who "who wants to use the platform of the Catholic Church to undermine its authority and attack its teachings" seems very un Catholic to me. I think it was Ann Landers who once wrote something to someone who was claiming about their church being filled with sinners. She told them "If the Church shouldn't be filled with sinners, seeing as all of us have sinned, than who should be there? The Church is there to help sinners not the prefect. And if you are a mortal human and not Mary you are not prefect."

[Dave]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Aug 22 2004, 12:41 PM'] I wonder if he says "Lord I am not worthy to recive you but only say the word and I shall be healed" at Mass. Kerry is a sinner, yes. If ANYONE should be going to Church insitiutions it should be a sinner. Kerry is in mortal sin so he shouldn't go to Catholic parishes, schools, or hospitals?

I don't know how many times I have entered my parish in a state of sin. I need to be cleaned of those mortal sins and restored to a state of grace. How can I do that without going to a parish?

Say Mr Kerry changes his view on abortion, doubtful but possible, he is going to need a confessional. So we try to deny him use of our Churchs.

Is that a new rule? I knew that one shouldn't recive communion in a state of sin but entering the church? That is new to me.

And entering hospitals? The Catholic hospital should treat all in need. Christ himself "treated" people with really bad sins. In Luke he casts demons out of Mary Magdela (sp?). And the woman at his feet that he told to "Go and sin no more." Christ sought out the sinners to heal them of their sins. If Christ was a director of a hospital would he refuse to treat someone because of their sins?

To say that the use of Catholic insitutions by Mr Kerry or anyone who "who wants to use the platform of the Catholic Church to undermine its authority and attack its teachings" seems very un Catholic to me. I think it was Ann Landers who once wrote something to someone who was claiming about their church being filled with sinners. She told them "If the Church shouldn't be filled with sinners, seeing as all of us have sinned, than who should be there? The Church is there to help sinners not the prefect. And if you are a mortal human and not Mary you are not prefect." [/quote]
Jacob, there's a world of difference between your case and Kerry's case. You went to your parish because you knew you had sinned and because you wanted to seek forgiveness and be reconciled with God.

Kerry, on the other hand, isn't going to Catholic parishes, schools, or hospitals to repent, be treated, etc. He's doing it to try and get people to vote for him, which no Catholic should do. Catholics are called not to give scandal to others. For a Catholic parish, school, or hospital to welcome Kerry as a guest of honor or a speaker would give people the wrong idea, namely, that being a Catholic and pro-abortion is ok. It's not!

Suppose Kerry advocated killing old people, black people, the poor, etc. Would you dare say that even then he should be allowed to appear at Catholic parishes, schools, or hospitals?

[Iacobus]

That isn't my point. If Kerry repents, which he is capable of doing nothing is preventing him from doing so, why should we hold him out of a parish? I am not refering to voting drives, anyone who goes to a Catholic parish, school, or hospital to get votes just makes me physicaly sick. Those are places of God not poltics.

Why should we stop Kerry from going to those places if he wishes to paratice his faith, bar reciving communion? Kerry is a sinner and a sinner needs God more than someone free of sin their whole life does. We should be begging Kerry to go to Mass (not take communion but be there) and to learn about his faith. We are not going to get that by trying to ban him from all Catholic outlets.

[Dave]

I never said we should ban him from going to Mass on Sunday as a normal parishioner. And that Bush guy to whom you were referring wasn't saying that either. And if he got sick and needed to be treated at a hospital, surely no Catholic hospital would refuse him. And if he wanted to go back to school, no Catholic university would deny him admission.

[Iacobus]

[quote name='Dave' date='Aug 22 2004, 11:59 AM'] I never said we should ban him from going to Mass on Sunday as a normal parishioner. And that Bush guy to whom you were referring wasn't saying that either. And if he got sick and needed to be treated at a hospital, surely no Catholic hospital would refuse him. And if he wanted to go back to school, no Catholic university would deny him admission. [/quote]
I might have read that wrong. Reading it a second (well 7th time) I see the two ways to read it...

I read it as this

[b]My first press statement after his nomination was that Church institutions -- parishes, schools, hospitals, etc. -- should be off limits to Kerry or anyone[/b] who wants to use the platform of the Catholic Church to undermine its authority and attack its teachings.

And the latter part was trying to use the Church to undermine the Church... don't ask I am sure it is possible somehow. Maybe like the Trads do or something... I don't know.

And you read it as

My first press statement after his nomination was that Church institutions -- parishes, schools, hospitals, etc. -- should be off limits to Kerry or anyone who wants to use the [i]platform[/i] of the Catholic Church to undermine its authority and attack its teachings.

Platform as a point of speaking. I was thinking platform like a "platform of the party." So I think that was were the differences are from. I probly got the wrong read off it.

[Theoketos]

Jacob,

Some times you are too liberal.

We are all sinners, but if I sin I should not shout from the roofs tops that my sin is awesome. I should not be elected becuase I think my sinning is good. The Church would not allow me to espouse my sin from her mediums, because it is her duty to proclaim the Truth.

If Kerry were allowed to talk at a Church, or a Catholic hospital, then it would be condoning abortion, and she would say that those things that Kerry supports should happen here.

This would not be good.

Ave Maria,

James III

[phatcatholic]

the whole point is that Kerry should not be allowed to use catholic churches and schools to sell his ideas and his political agenda to catholics. since he is not a faithful catholic, he would do nothing but cause scandal to them. btw, that's also why many bishops have not allowed Voice of the Faithful to use churches to sell their agenda either

no one is saying that Kerry can't go to mass.

Edited August 22, 2004 by phatcatholic

[Iacobus]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Aug 22 2004, 01:50 PM'] the whole point is that Kerry should not be allowed to use catholic churches and schools to sell his ideas and his political agenda to catholics. since he is not a faithful catholic, he would do nothing but cause scandal to them. btw, that's also why many bishops have not allowed Voice of the Faithful to use churches to sell their agenda either

no one is saying that Kerry can't go to mass. [/quote]
Yeh... I misread the thing. I was thinking platform as like a platform of a party. The Dems platform or something. Not platform like a platform to speak at. I misread it and if I could delete this thread, because I was in err as to what was being said and I didn't notice until Dave kinda pointed it out, I would.

So sorry for the misunderstanding.

Edited August 22, 2004 by Iacobus

[MC Just]

Kerry is recieving the Lord in Mortal sin. Because he doesnt really care about Church teachings. That is a good reason to ban him....

[phatcatholic]

its all good iacobus

[Iacobus]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Aug 22 2004, 07:18 PM'] its all good iacobus [/quote]
Yeh. Sorry about that I really read that wrong and didn't really see the other (and probly right, lol) way of reading it until Dave's second reply. I feel kinda dumb for not seeing it esp because I read it over and over again. LOL!