Evolution

[White Knight]

Evolution says our DNA gets more complex, thats not true, it stays the same, otherwise genetics would be screwed up.

[StColette]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Aug 29 2004, 09:44 PM'] Evolution says our DNA gets more complex, thats not true, it stays the same, otherwise genetics would be screwed up. [/quote]
Evolution is the change in DNA over time which this can be taken as meaning like my DNA is different in its entirety than my father's because my DNA genes are a combination of both my father's and mom's genes if DNA genes weren't different in the way they were arranged and put together everyone would look the same. Identical twins have the same DNA because their DNA are exact copies of one another but their finger prints are different mind you

Edited August 30, 2004 by StColette

[HomeTeamFamily]

[quote]But.....the Church says we are not suppost to believe in evolution from apes ,I know that for sure. Evolution of animals to others im not sure of.[/quote]

can you please provide a source for this statement?

[StColette]

btw just so that everyone knows lol I don't think we came from apes lol Just so that is made clear. I believe in God with my entire heart and always will.

I'm just making sure everyone knows the true definition of the Evolution theory because I know it can often be misconstrude. In fact last night I used the evolution theory to uphold the existance of God and to uphold that we and all living things were created by God.

Edited August 30, 2004 by StColette

[HomeTeamFamily]

dont lie....you just didnt want a phishy label hehe

[Aloysius]

for "evolution from apes" to be compatible with Catholic Teaching, you'd have to make a very complicated calculated statement. it'd have to be something like, God created everything out of nothing, then created all animals including one ape which he created out of dirt, then evolved that into a man and then created that woman from that man.

but StColletes and Iacobus's form of evolution can be accepted, and I think that is true.

but apes didn't change into humans.

[StColette]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Aug 29 2004, 10:04 PM'] but apes didn't change into humans. [/quote]
Exactly !! Evolution theory doesn't say humans came from apes

[Sanvean]

There is no one theory of evolution, and, as Jennie says, evolution makes no comment on the original creation of life.

Yes. Many evolutionists subscribe to the very false belief in abiogenesis(that is, the ridiculous notion that life popped up all by itself without God's intervention). This, however, is a seperate idea that is not a part of evolution.

Darwinism came about quite some time ago, and, while Charles Darwin is debatably the father of the theory of evolution, Darwinism is in no way indicative of where modern evolution theory stands.

Furthermore, while evolution is indeed non-theistic in nature, this does not imply a belief that there is no God. Rather, it implies a lack of belief in God. Certainly, many atheists are evolutionists, but this does not mean that all evolutionists themselves all deny the existance of God. That would be an example of the Fallacy of Composition.

Evolution does not necessarily state that our DNA gets more complex, simply that it changes over generations in a population.

My goodness. This is why I have always been leery of discussions on evolution theory... it tends to turn into one long argument of "Yes it does!" and "No it doesn't!".

What is there, really, to say? God created the universe out of nothing. How He did it is really none of our business. If it's going to be a source of division between Christians... that's a sad, sad thing.

God bless.

-Veronica

P.S. Is this thread really appropriate for Open Mic?

[Sanvean]

[quote name='StColette' date='Aug 29 2004, 11:08 PM'] Exactly !! Evolution theory doesn't say humans came from apes [/quote]
Precisely! There is a theory that humans and apes share a common ancestor, but noone is claiming that apes are, in fact, our ancestors.

-Veronica

[Iacobus]

[quote name='Sanvean' date='Aug 29 2004, 10:17 PM'] Precisely! There is a theory that humans and apes share a common ancestor, but noone is claiming that apes are, in fact, our ancestors.

-Veronica [/quote]
Apes can be a common ancestor but the human branch was broken off by God and favored and given a soul and free will whereas nothing else was. This favor of God thing seems to work, and I think one of the popes said something about it in one of the links provided. So could it (man and ape are physical *not mentaly or spirtualy* related?) have been? Sure. Does that mean it was? No.

[Sanvean]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Aug 29 2004, 11:28 PM'] Apes can be a common ancestor but the human branch was broken off by God and favored and given a soul and free will whereas nothing else was. This favor of God thing seems to work, and I think one of the popes said something about it in one of the links provided. So could it (man and ape are physical *not mentaly or spirtualy* related?) have been? Sure. Does that mean it was? No. [/quote]
Well, apes "could" be our ancestor, certainly, but the sort of science that gets taken seriously in the journals does not claim that.

-Veronica

[Iacobus]

[quote name='Sanvean' date='Aug 29 2004, 10:32 PM'] Well, apes "could" be our ancestor, certainly, but the sort of science that gets taken seriously in the journals does not claim that.

-Veronica [/quote]
Yeh. But getting set in one thing, when you are right, is good. But when you are wrong it is bad. And if you are probly right but don't know 100% than it is nice to have room for an out. LOL!

I will explain myself come the AM if this isn't making sense. LOL! I have AP Chem that is summoning and it is already 10:40 and I am sappy, long story.

Edited August 30, 2004 by Iacobus

[Sanvean]

ROFL. Ah yes... it's always nice to leave room for an out.

God bless,
Veronica

[White Knight]

You do know our DNA stays the same right? it doesn't change..... at all, it stays the way God made it.

[Aloysius]

however, i wonder if it is compatible to say the human branch came off and was favored by God, because Catholic teaching says we must believe that all human beings came from one common human ancestor- adam. so it'd be really odd to say He evolved only one human from apes and that is the one human from which we all came.

[Iacobus]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Aug 29 2004, 10:48 PM'] however, i wonder if it is compatible to say the human branch came off and was favored by God, because Catholic teaching says we must believe that all human beings came from one common human ancestor- adam. so it'd be really odd to say He evolved only one human from apes and that is the one human from which we all came. [/quote]
Yeh that is the part I am currently trying to figure out, lol. I have guesses but they are reaching, like trying to defend "the rapture." So I will hold on to them until I can understand them myself.

Best guesses? There had to be an index human in the new branch. Could that have been Adam? Or could humans as in Homo Sapiens been around without a soul and Adam was the 1st to get a soul? And so forth.

[Aloysius]

well, every single human being alive today must have Adam as his ancestor. there can be no human beings without adam as their ancestor.

[quote]"When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is no no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Magisterium of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own." [Pope Pius XII, Encyclical Letter Humani Generis, no. 37]
[/quote]

Pope Pius XII, Humani Generis

[reelguy227]

this is reelguys cousin again: Ok so god put us on earth and we change "NATURALY" Thats why its called natural selection. For example the, gall bladder, it is thought to be
used to be an extra fiddler/grinder for food, what dose it do now? Nothing! do you think god just put them there for nothing, no. because we dont eat raw meat like we did back then. someday we might be born without them. thats natural selection. no evolution from apes hapening here... just getting rid of or gaining somthing that we need or dont need. just imagin that hapining over a hunderd thousand years. mabey we wont need two eyes!!! Just kidding

[Oik]

[quote](4) Human Evolution vs. Plant and Animal Evolution

To what extent is the theory of evolution applicable to man? That God should have made use of natural, evolutionary, original causes in the production of man's body, is per se not improbable, and was propounded by St. Augustine (see AUGUSTINE OF HIPPO, SAINT, under V. Augustinism in History). The actual proofs of the descent of man's body from animals is, however, inadequate, especially in respect to paleontology. And the human soul could not have been derived through natural evolution from that of the brute, since it is of a spiritual nature; for which reason we must refer its origin to a creative act on the part of God. [/quote]

This is what initially made me start to question evolution. I didn't believe that humans evolved, but I still thought is was possible for animals to evolve.
[quote]however, i wonder if it is compatible to say the human branch came off and was favored by God, because Catholic teaching says we must believe that all human beings came from one common human ancestor- adam. so it'd be really odd to say He evolved only one human from apes and that is the one human from which we all came. [/quote] This is another point of my questioning of evolution. I wondered to myself. The Church teaches that Adam was the first man. Adam had a soul. If evolution is correct, which humanoid did Adam belong to. And what about the other humanoids, were they human? Did they have a soul?

I say that the classification of humanoid creatures are incorrect. I think Adam and Eve had a special genetic code that had a certain capacity. So when Adam and Eve mated, the genes passed to thier children also had that same capacity, although the genetic structure was the same. I think that that same capacity has existed the length of humanity.

Also, for Adam and Eve, everything (in the garden) was perfect. When sin was introduced, everything was lessened and now the entire universe and all of creation is longing for the Sons of God to be revealed, or in reality, all creation is trying to work its way back to how it was originally, and this time will only come when the New Heaven and New Earth becomes. So, all the things we "observe" as "change" or mutations are actually the effort of creation to become how is already is. This debunks evolutionary theory. Simply put, things do not "change," they only become how they already are. I also believe God is involved in every single detail and decision of all of creation. If he wasn't, nothing would happen, ever. :ph34r: