Thomas A Kempis

[J.R.D]

i thought u had hve to perform a miricle in order to become a saint?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='dUSt' date='Sep 2 2004, 08:38 PM'] 3.14159265 cannon? [/quote]
What have I done...?

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

What is "succombing to despair"?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='thedude' date='Sep 2 2004, 09:01 PM'] What is "succombing to despair"? [/quote]
It means that he gave in to despair, which is essentially giving up on God and losing all hope.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Sep 2 2004, 08:02 PM'] It means that he gave in to despair, which is essentially giving up on God and losing all hope. [/quote]
Isn't it human nature to assume that if you've been buried alive, you're number's up? I mean, I don't think that he WILLFULLY gave into despare, doubted God or anything. Sheee... the guy was six feet under, he panicked...

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 2 2004, 09:13 PM'] Isn't it human nature to assume that if you've been buried alive, you're number's up? I mean, I don't think that he WILLFULLY gave into despare, doubted God or anything. Sheee... the guy was six feet under, he panicked... [/quote]
No...he could hope that God would rescue him or he could despair that God didn't. Neither of them means that God would have to rescue him.

Despair could also mean that he refused to carry the Cross of it, which would be comparable to if St. Maximilian Kolbe had been in the ovens and allowed the pain to overwhelm him into giving up. It's essentially a refusal of God's grace to last through it and offer it up, but rather, to desire death soon and despair in the pain. It's really quite illogical.

This is one of the things I fear...if I were being martyred, would I hold out by God's grace or would I refuse it out of my pain. Since I believe persecution is coming with the way our culture is going, I want to prepare myself with God for anything.

[homeschoolmom]

So, what you're saying is if I find myself buried alive, I cannot get claustraphobic, panic, pull out my hair and wish that God would have mercy on me and let me die? I must patiently take a deep breath, twiddle my thumbs and pray. If not, I'm commiting a mortal sin and doomed to hell.

[Guest T-Bone]

bump

[theculturewarrior]

My understanding is that final despair is to doubt that God's Mercy is bigger than your sins.

I must reiterate from my post above, it appears that it was internet fiction and Kempis was never doubted to have died a happy death.

It is important not to give into scrupulosity. God's not going to send you to hell on a technicality. But pray for a happy death.

[the_rev]

[quote]Edgar Allen Poe had a morbid fascination with this sort of stuff. Apparently, it was quite common to be buried alive. [/quote]

The term Saved by the bell comes from people being buried alive. They use to attack a string with bell their finger so if they awoke they could ring it.

Interesting ey'

[dUSt]

Wow, it must have been difficult to tell if someone was dead. Hmmm... Body warm = alive. Body cold = dead. That's tough.

Then again, just like today when we say that unborn children aren't alive, I suppose that back in the day if someone was in a comma, they didn't consider them alive... maybe.

[geo]

Doesn't finding him with a handful of hair just mean he was saying to himself, "darn and now I'm going bald, what else could go wrong!"

I love his book, and it would be very cool to be involved in getting him recognized by the church as a saint. What do we do next?

[Theoketos]

I also read that he had a "look of despair" on his face...but I am not sure what that means. I also heard that the coffin was scratched up on the inside...the whole thing freaks me out.

Any way, dUSt, if you want he canonized start asking for his intercession for matters concerning your life, espcially Phatmass, and document them...

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='dUSt' date='Sep 2 2004, 07:17 PM'] Woa. I found this on a website. Very disturbing...

[i]"I had also always wondered why nobody had canonised Thomas à Kempis, author of the Imitation of Christ, which has inspired so many and a copy of which Pope John Paul I was allegedly holding when he was found dead. Well, here was the gruesome answer. Apparently when his coffin was opened for formal identification of the remains at the beginning of the process, he was found to be holding clumps of his own hair tightly in his hands. It seems he must have been buried while in a coma, and not dead, and would have woken up to find himself buried alive. The clumps of hair suggested he might have succumbed to despair, which of course would bar him from sainthood. It seems the case was just dropped at that point and never revived."[/i] [/quote]
I think it would be a bit presumputous on the authors part to assume a panic attack means despair and lack of trust in God.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote name='the_rev' date='Sep 3 2004, 07:09 AM']
The term Saved by the bell comes from people being buried alive. They use to attack a string with bell their finger so if they awoke they could ring it.

Interesting ey' [/quote]
I thought saved by the bell came from boxing when a 10-count at the end of a round would be stopped by the bell ringing.

'Graveyard shift', however, does come from the bells attached. People would have to wait at the graveyard around the clock just in case someone rang their bell.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

I think if I woke up from a coma, my first reaction would be one of panic. After that, I would try to calm myself down and try to die in peace. Who knows what really happened. Maybe he panicked and had a heart attack instantly. It's not exactly a situation where one would be fully aware and have his wits.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 2 2004, 09:35 PM'] So, what you're saying is if I find myself buried alive, I cannot get claustraphobic, panic, pull out my hair and wish that God would have mercy on me and let me die? I must patiently take a deep breath, twiddle my thumbs and pray. If not, I'm commiting a mortal sin and doomed to hell. [/quote]
I don't think it's quite that way. But giving into fear, letting fear rule instead of having the hope that you would be rescued while still realizing that God will take care of you, would be bad. It's the abandonment of hope and the thinking about the tragedy of death without the hope of heaven. Essentially, it's looking that the glass half empty in a very grave manner.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='the_rev' date='Sep 3 2004, 08:09 AM']
The term Saved by the bell comes from people being buried alive. They use to attack a string with bell their finger so if they awoke they could ring it.

Interesting ey' [/quote]
Actually, there is a standing patent in the US for a grave ventilation machine that works through the tombstone. It has a signaling system to inform others that you are still alive, if you were in a coma, and a crank that pumps fresh air into the casket.

[theculturewarrior]

bump.

[BurkeFan]

I've heard that the buried alive thing in regards to Kempis is completely an urban legend.